Recorded in-person at Mother Earth News Fair in Seven Springs, Pennsylvania, we talk about ancient brews, interesting flavors, and the domestication of yeast. We dive into the historical importance of fermented beverages, hops, and water. How brewing was, for most of human history, of a communal nature. Find out more about Jereme and his work at jereme-zimmerman.com. What are you brewing? What would you like to make? Let me know. Leave a comment below. 

Thank you for joining me to celebrate 8 years of The Permaculture Podcast and this conversation with my friend Jereme Zimmerman.

Until the next time, as we move into the ninth year of the show, spend each day creating the world you want to live in by fermenting tasty beverages, and taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

(The resources section contains affiliate links for Jereme’s books. I earn a referral fee if you make a purchase through these links, at no extra cost to you, which helps to keep the podcast going. Thank you for your support.)

Resources
Brew Beer Like a Yeti (Chelsea Green Publishing)
Make Mead Like a Viking
Jereme Zimmerman
Sahti (Wiki)

Related Interviews 
Pascal Baudar - The Wildcrafting Brewer
Pascal Baudar - The New Wildcrafted Cuisine

(This post contains affiliate link(s). Thank you for your support.) I always enjoy going to Mother Earth News Fair and other conferences as a chance to catch up with the various folks I’ve gotten to know over the years, to continue to strengthen and grow existing relationships and start new ones. While at the fair this year I had a chance to talk with Sean and Michael of Chelsea Green Publishing about the upcoming catalog and what to expect in Spring 2019. One of those is a book by Emmet van Dreische who runs a Christmas Tree Farm where he coppices the trees rather than the traditional cut/stump/replant. This is something nearly unheard of among the softwoods used for Christmas trees. Emmet also, as I understand, is working on doing a non-familial transfer of a farm, all while carving spoons and raising a family. I reached out to Emmet via Instagram and we have an interview scheduled for this week. Another interview on the docket is with Lindsey Bender, the mycologist for Field and Forest Products. If you’re not familiar with Field and Forest they are one of my favorite mushroom companies, in general, and also of my favorite companies on earth, in particular, due to their outstanding customer service. Lindsey, her co-worker Laura, and I spent the weekend talking mushrooms, life in the midwest, and generally nerding out about all the cools things happening in the world of mycology. As a research scientist with a background in microbiology, Lindsey brings a lot to the table that I’ve not encountered elsewhere when talking to people who work with mushrooms. That day I learned a lot, and an interview with Lindsey should be illuminating for anyone interested in the Kingdom Fungi. Moving away from interviews I also saw Jessi Bloom and we checked in about her new book, Creating Sanctuary, which is off to the printers. We’re planning a follow-up to continue to explore the ways we can heal ourselves and help others, through the lens of the personal and public projects she’s working on. I also saw Sara Bir and Victoria Redhed Miller, of The Fruit Forager’s Companion and Craft Distilling, respectively. Sara was a delight to hear speak about Paw Paws, which I highly recommend you track her down if she is speaking near you. Victoria had ended her talk when we finally caught up, and she’s someone you should see in person if you get a chance. When describing my time with Victoria to a friend after the show my friend commented, “She sounds like the Jane Goodall of baking and distilling.” I think my friend was right. Victoria’s passion for these subjects came through in every moment I spent with her. At any large expo like this, you can also expect many vendors. One of those that I ran into was Susquehanna Sustainable Enterprises and Rebel Garden Tools, both run by my friend and PDC instructor Ben Weiss. I spent time with him and his partner Ella as they staffed their booth and we caught up on all things permaculture, gardening, and herbal apothecary. I can’t speak to the herbal medicine Ben is creating, but I can say that I’m impressed with the line of Wilson designed, locally built garden tools, especially after replacing a made-by-someone-else garden fork and then bending the replacement while working on some projects at Seppi’s Place. The tools Wilson and Ben offer are heavy duty, hard-working, and with an artisanal-industrial look which appeals to my inner metal-head. For my own use, along with a grub hoe I already own, three tools I would add to my collection in a heartbeat are the magna grecia (a two-tine pick/mattock), tusk spade/axe (my personal favorite), and the 5 Tine Mini Fork with T-Handle. Though some might prefer a broad fork to the mini fork, these particular tools form a well rounded, go-anywhere kit for the gardener, forager, or forest farmer. Ben talked with me about offering some discount codes to both of his companies for Permaculture Podcast listeners. You’ll find those, and other discounts and opportunities, such as classes with The Permaculture Women’s guild, on the podcast affiliates page at https://www.thepermaculturepodcast.com/affiliates. Overall this was another great Mother Earth News Fair if a bit smaller than past years. I look forward to seeing what the fair holds in 2019. You can see pictures from the weekend at https://www.instagram.com/permaculturepodcast As mentioned in the opening, last year at the fair I spoke with Cyndi Ball of National Ladies Homestead Gathering. Returning to the 2018 fair, we sat down and recorded this short conversation to discuss where the organization went in the preceding year, and what their plans are for the future. Find out more about Cyndi Ball and National Ladies Homestead Gathering at ladieshomesteadgathering.org. Related Interviews 1553 - Make Mead Like a Viking with Jereme Zimmerman Ladies Homestead Gathering with Cyndi Ball (YouTube) 1822 - The Fruit Forager's Companion with Sara Bir 1816 - The Legality of Craft Distilling with Victoria Redhed Miller 1823 - The Art of Craft Distilling Redhed Miller Resources Mother Earth News Fair Mother Earth News Magazine The Permaculture Podcast on Instagram The Permaculture Podcast on YouTube Brew Beer Like a Yeti Susquehanna Apothecary (Use this link to save 20%) Rebel Garden Tools (Use this link to save 10%) National Ladies Homestead Gathering (This post contains affiliate link(s). An affiliate link means I may earn advertising / referral fees if you make a purchase through my link, without any extra cost to you, it helps to keep this podcast going. Thanks for your support.)

During their conversation David and Hunter talk about the problems facing humanity, from climate change to economic policies, and how we got into this mess. She then shares solutions we can take, right now, to make a difference. Those ideas range from new habits, to ongoing education and direct action. Learn more about Hunter Lovins and her current work at NatCapSolutions.org and her book, from New Society Publishers, at NewSociety.com. What did you think of this conversation with Hunter Lovins? Leave a comment in the show notes, or get in touch with David and I: Email: The Permaculture Podcast Write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast Until the next time, spend each day creating the world you want to live in by taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other. Recommended Reading (and watching) George Monbiot - Neoliberalism: The Ideology at the Root of All our Problems. Powell Memorandum: Attack on American Free Enterprise System Dana’s Writing - The Donella Meadow Projects Tony Seba: Clean Disruption - Energy & Transportation (Video) Gabe Brown: Keys to Building a Healthy Soil (Video) John Fullerton - Regenerative Capitalism Buckminster Fuller - Operating Instructions for Spaceship Earth (PDF) Kate Rayworth - Donut Economics Freya Williams - Green Giants Andrew Winston - Big Pivot E.F Schumacher - Small is Beautiful (Full Text) E.F. Schumacher - A Guide for the Perplexed (Wiki) Lester Brown - The Twenty Ninth Day (Thrift Books) Lester Brown - Full Planet, Empty Plate (Thrift Books) Lester Brown - Plan B 4.0 (Thrift Books) Jonah Sachs - Winning the Story Wars Resources Hunter Lovins A Finer Future (New Society Publishers) Natural Capitalism Solutions Bard MBA in Sustainability Robinhood - Invest for Free Rocky Mountain Institute The Mont Pelerin Society Neoliberalism (Wiki) The Dark Mountain Project Well Being Economy Club of Rome Transition Network Savory Institute Regen18 Ecological Outcome Verification Change Finance (CHGX) ETF John L. Lewis (Wiki) Cesar Chavez (Wiki) Amory Lovins

I explore those thoughts and more with my guest today, Hazel, who some of you may know as Tom Ward. A long-time permaculture practitioner, he remains one of the few people who I feel comfortable calling an elder in the community. As you’ll hear during the conversation today, he carries an impeccable reputation and is known for his respect for people and respect for the land. Ask around among your circles, and you’ll likely hear this echoed by someone whose life was impacted by Hazel’s work as a teacher and storyteller to generations of permaculture practitioners. Which is funny, because, in this digital age, he’s not always the easiest person to find. Drawing from his breadth of experience, Hazel shares with us the importance of putting away gadgets and technology and embedding ourselves in a deep sense of place. To listen and be part of the land around us, and to work with those who are ready.

You can find out more about Hazel and his work, including upcoming social forestry and optical surveying classes, at siskiyoupermaculture.com.

If you have any thoughts or questions from this conversation with Hazel, leave a comment below.

Resources
Siskiyou Permaculture
Social Forestry Course
Optical Surveying Course
Hazel's Collected Videos and Recordings
Heartwood Institute
Brock Dolman - Occidental Arts & Ecology
Traditional Aboriginal Burning (Cool Burning)

Recommended Reading
Beyond the War on Invasive Species by Tao Orion
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Daughters of Copper Woman by Anne Cameron
Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Brown
Keeping it Living by Nancy Turner
The Shallows by Nicholas Carr
The Spell of the Sensuous by David Abram
Tending the Wild by Kat Anderson
World Without Mind by Franklin Foer

She shares her personal story of becoming Trauma-Informed, ways we can work on healing ourselves through mental and physical health routines, how we can help others by taking a Mental Health First Aid training, and what we can do to create sacred spaces and use plants, plant-based medicine, and daily acts for our overall happiness and wellbeing. This work isn’t about a day at a spa or a simple vacation to recuperate, but how you can heal yourself and create a life that supports and nurtures you.

Find out more about Jessi and work at jessibloom.com and her books, including Creating Sanctuary, at TimberPress.com.

What do you think of this conversation with Jessi? What do you do to take care of yourself? Have you attended a course in Mental Health First Aid or to become Trauma-Informed?

Let me know. Leave a comment below. 

Resources
Jessi Bloom
NW Bloom Ecological Services
Timber Press
Trauma Informed Care Project (Offers Trainings)
Mental Health First Aid
Dave Boehnlein
Bullock's Permaculture Homestead
Tilth Alliance

Find out more about Gregory, the white paper he mentioned, and how to get involved at regen.network. Though I’m not a techno-optimist by any means, I do like to see the interplay of culture, technology, and emerging ideas. How we might use the blockchain, most well known for cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, in ways never initially imagined to explore different ways to conduct business, track information, engage in politics, and re-democratize the use of one's own data. Even with those thoughts, I leave this conversation with more questions for Gregory, the Regen Network, and everyone involved with implementing the token, ledgers, and accounting system. How will this open source idea be accountable? Will everyone need to buy a token? If so, what does that mean for accessibility? What kind of technology and Internet connection is required to participate, as Gregory mentioned programmers near the end, and how will that create a digital divide shutting some people out of the system and inviting others in? Those are some of the initial questions that come to mind, and I’m sure you have many of your own. If you do and would like them included in the next conversation about Blockchain and Regenerative Enterprise, leave a comment in the show notes, or get in touch. Email:The Permaculture Podcast Write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast Resources Regen Network Regenerative Enterprise Terra Genesis International

In this interview, Kelly walks us through many of the steps required for building with earthbags, including the practical needs of what bags to use, what you can fill the bags with for thermal mass or insulation, some of the tools and equipment you’ll need, establishing a foundation, laying the courses, tying each layer together, and also how to secure your doors and windows.After you’ve listened to this interview, you’ll have a basic understanding of how to use earthbags for construction. With a copy of Kelly’s book you can learn the rest.

Find out more about Kelly and his work, including his DVD A Sampler of Alternative Homes, at naturalbuildingblog.com, and his book at NewSociety.com.

I like this interview because Kelly invites us to try our hand at building with earthbags. I find that invitation in, to try, to make mistakes, and to learn, incredibly powerful and empowering. We can start with simple structures, like an above-ground root cellar or domed storage shed, to get comfortable with the necessary techniques before proceeding to something more complicated. With the way earthbags go together we can stack, pull down, and try again, with our first structure serving as an in-depth learning experience. This is also an inexpensive technique, making it affordable and accessible in ways other methods, where mistakes can be costly, are not. Looking at the cost of supplies and some sample projects, 1,000 of the polypropylene bags that Kelly mentioned, are less than $400. Another $80 for a 440-yard roll of 4-point barbed wire. From there you’ll need rebar, lumber, windows, doors, and your tools, but over and over again I found many owner-built earthbag homes, all over the world, for under $10,000, in all shapes and sizes. Multi-story. Rectilinear. Rounded. Any combination you can imagine.

As a lover of cob and the feel of Earthships, there is something about the earthbag as a base that appeals to me. Its natural building meets LEGO. Earth risen into walls and offering us security, in a structure we can build with our own hands. I can think of few things more comfortable than that.

What do you think of this conversation? Has this changed your thoughts on building with earthbags? Is this a method you’ve used? Let me know. Leave a comment in the show notes, or get in touch.

From here the next regular episode is a conversation with Ben Goldfarb to talk about his book Eager and the role of one of the world’s greatest ecosystem engineers, the beaver. Until then, spend each day creating the world, and homes, you want to live in, while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Resources
Essential Earthbag Construction Natural Building Blog (Kelly’s Website)
A Sampler of Alternative Homes (Kelly’s DVD)
Nader Khalili (1936 - 2008)
The $50 and Up Underground House Book (undergroundhousing.com)

This year I need to begin the campaign a little early as I am in need of urgent oral surgery due to an abscess the size of a quarter inside my head - it’s at the front of my maxilla for those of you familiar with human anatomy or who want to look it up. This problem went undiagnosed until a few weeks ago; growing silently and painlessly while doing a fair amount of damage. Thankfully, if the surgery is performed soon the specialist feels we can save the affected teeth, seal my sinus, and get this to heal without any complications.

Living in the gift, I need to ask you now for help with this, as the cost of surgery is $1770, or more than two months of my income after paying the expenses for the show. Due to the urgency surgery is currently scheduled for September 6th, and I need to raise these funds by September 1st to ensure I have everything on hand.

After that, the regular Summer-to-Fall fundraiser will continue until the 8th anniversary of the show on October 10th, with the goal of raising an additional $2,000. This brings the total for the entire campaign to $3,770.

Can you lend a hand in this moment of need?

Donate online at paypal.me/permaculturepodcast

Or drop something in the post:

The Permaculture Podcast

The Permaculture Podcast

Thank you.

He shares with us the way we can combine local ingredients as flavor, with water, sugar, and yeast to create sodas, beer, wine, and mead with local flavor and sense of place. If you are familiar with his first book, The New Wildcrafted Cuisine, then you know his thoughts push the limits of what we might think of when considering what to toss into our brew pot. Taking these methods, he again takes us in an unexpected direction that goes from the social drinks we might expect, to discuss how we might consider making culinary, healing, or even psychotropic beverages.

Find out more about Pascal and his work as a forager and teacher at urbanoutdoorskills.com and his books, including The Wildcrafting Brewer at ChelseaGreen.com.

 Stepping away from this conversation, though he and I spoke about brewing and making wild-flavored beverages, I’m thinking more generally about how easy it is to complicate and over-analyze our journey and arrive at a place where the results we wish to accomplish gets lost in a messy process requiring more work than needed. Pascal shows us that with his primitive, or as he also says archaic, brews and how the modern steps, and commercial flavors, limit the range of experiences we create as we scrub and sanitize our pots and fermentation vessels, or leave our brews alone; watched but untouched as the liquid transforms from sugary concoction into alcoholic elixir.

How often do we do seek this same sterile approach in our other work, only to find the effort falls flat because of a singular direction and only considering one way? What if we tried more simplicity and creativity in our work as permaculture designers, and in our relationships and initiatives for community building? Can we strip away the unnecessary and arrive and something more concise, clear, whole, productive, and enjoyable? I think so, and the skills of creating wild foods and beverages provide a place where we can safely explore these patterns, before searching for similar details in our other work.

What do you think of this conversation with Pascal? Leave a comment below. 

Resources
Outdoor Urban Skills
The Wildcrafting Brewer
The New Wildcrafted Cuisine
Chelsea Green Publishing

Find out more about the company and products of Thrive at thrivecare.co.

Stepping away from this conversation I am left considering the ongoing push-pull between doing what is right and what works for our time and place. As individuals, groups, and organizations interested in the environment and caring for people that often means moving towards an ideal, rather than jumping directly there. We must acknowledge the forces at play, what is beyond our control that limits the viable options, and where we can offer reformatory or revolutionary change. What Alex and Mario are doing with Thrive addresses many of those concerns and pushes towards reforming the giant market that is the skin care industry with a radical approach to supporting their providers, while showing multi-million dollar companies what is possible, particularly at scales orders of magnitude larger than Thrive. I wish Alex, Mario, and the rest of their colleagues best in reaching their goals, and look forward to David having a follow-up conversation with them in a year or so to see how they are doing.

hat do you think of this conversation? Are you involved in an industry that could use this model to institute change? If you were asked to lean into the work of Thrive, what suggestions would you have for improving their model?

Let me know by leaving a comment below.