Byron Joel - The Power of Permaculture

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My guest for this episode is Byron Joel, a permaculture designer, teacher, and practitioner from Margaret River, Australia, where he operates Oak Tree Designs. We originally sat down to speak about his background and work as a professional designer in Australia, but didn’t wind up going in that direction at all. This is a powerful, personal, and candid conversation between the two of us. This is open and honest like Dave Jacke kind of open and honest, for those of you who have listened to that interview. If you haven’t, the whole archives are still available through the RSS feed so go check look it up and give it a listen. In the space we created for one another we talk about finding a calling to practice permaculture and with it a transformative experience that delivered us from the paths we were on to something better. We also touch on the history of permaculture and where we stand today in this current wave of permaculture growth and transition from the earliest pioneers to the next generation of designers who can change the world. We also talk about hope and the importance of preserving cultural traditions. Every interview recorded for this show, every guest I speak with, is important to me and transforms the way I look at the world and what we can do to create a better place. Sometimes, however, one stands out that really touches me and makes me a better person for it. This is one of those conversations. If you enjoy this episode, or any in the archives, please make a donation to the show so that I can keep this generous cycle of sharing going in the world. Find out how at thepermaculturepodcast.com/support. And that was Byron Joel. I’m not going to add anything to this conversation, except to say that you can find out more about Byron, his work, and listen to other interviews he’s given, by going to: Oaktreedesigns.com.au And here are the other resources mentioned in this episode: Zaytuna Farm Loess Plateau Watershed Rehabilitation Project Darren Dougherty Edible Forest Gardens Firestick Farming and Land Management The Biggest Estate on Earth by Bill Gammage Tending the Wild by M. Kat Anderson If you’d like to get in touch, here are the usual ways. E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Skype: permaculturepodcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: byronjoel)

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Adam Brock - Permaculture Conferences, Convergences, and Community Improvement

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My guest for this episode is Adam Brock, a permaculture teacher and practitioner from The Growhaus in Colorado, who is also developing an invisible structures pattern language. You can find out more about that latter project by going to peoplepattern.org. Adam sat down with me to talk about the IPC in Cuba and the Permaculture Voice conference, but we begin this interview with his pattern language before moving onto those other topics. The conversation represents his experiences at both of those events and also provides feedback on how we can use that to continue to improve our work as professionals to make our community more inclusive and productive for the people who want and need it. We also touch on how permaculture is continuing to expand at a rapid pace and how some of the movements to codify the PDC process and vet various professionals in the field. Not too long ago a few phone calls could help us get a personal understanding of a particular teacher or project, but that is getting harder as the sheer number of practitioners and people offering classes or workshops grows. After speaking with Adam I’m excited for where permaculture is and where it is going. Though I was initially hesitant about some of the organizing occurring, at the moment there is still room under this incredible umbrella of design that we can shake things up, experiment, try new things, and see what happens. Together we can see what the future holds. Adam's Past Interviews Urban Agriculture Invisible Structures People and Resources Global Exchange Movement Generation Andy Goldring Darren Doherty People & Pattern: A Pattern Language for Invisible Structures Permaculture Institute of North America (PINA) Permaculture Institute, U.S.A. The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil Robin Clayfield Robyn Francis Class Announcement Jen Mendez at Permie Kids has another Edge Alliance coming up on Sunday, August 3rd, 2014. Helen from One Hen presents on how to help children develop personal responsibility and connect with community by examining three questions:

  • How can personal responsibility relate to social entrepreneurship?
  • What can it look like for kids?
  • What soft and hard skills that must be present for kids to self-empower and community-empower in this way?

Find out more at: www.permiekids.com/community-collaboration/ What are your thoughts on the state of permaculture? If you’d like to get in touch, here are the usual ways. E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: AdamBrock3)

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Rafter Sass Ferguson - Permaculture Research

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My guest for this episode is Rafter Sass Ferguson, a permaculture practitioner and PhD student who is researching self-identified permaculture farms. Our conversation today looks at the state of his work and of permaculture research in general, as well as some of the challenges we face in broadening the impact, accountability, and acceptance of permaculture. Find out more about Rafter and his research at: liberationecology.org What stands out to me from this interview is, again, our importance of doing research as practitioners. To be involved. To experiment. To try new things. To figure out what does and doesn’t work where we are and share that information with others. We have the tools in our hands and in the permaculture literature to create an abundant world that can tackle some really big problems, but much of that gets cast aside because of the barriers and hurdles we have to overcome to get there. It’s why I take a long view on spreading the word and getting permaculture out there. I’d rather offer a life changing impact on a few people, like the person who wrote in saying that they were no longer a bigot and more accepting of others because of the interviews with Rhamis Kent, than have this podcast be a fluff piece for ten times as many people who just listen and move on. I wake up every day wanting to make the world a better place for everyone. For me, my children, my friends, my family, and for you, and people I haven’t met yet, and people who aren’t born yet. We have the most amazing set of tools. Now all we have to do is use them. I’ll step down from my soap box now and leave you to your time. If you’d like to get in touch, here are the usual ways. E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: rafter2)

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Mark Krawczyk - Keyline Design and Coppice Agroforestry

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My guest for this episode is Mark Krawczyk, a permaculture designer and teacher from Vermont. He is also the co-author, along with Dave Jacke, of forthcoming book Coppice Agroforestry – Perennial Silviculture for the 21st Century. Mark and I sat down and talked about keyline design and coppice work. Along the way we touch on three species he recommends experimenting with for a beginner to coppice, as well as his tool kit for this woods work. We also spoke about what species coppice well, including both deciduous hardwoods and some evergreens. This is an episode that contains a number of resources, which you’ll find links to below. If you find value in what you hear in this episode, or any of those in the archives, please make a contribution to the show. You can find out how at www.thepermaculturepodcast.com/support. There’s quite a lot in this episode for anyone looking to implement keyline design or work the woods. If you’re interested in getting started below you'll find links to the specialty stores Mark mentioned for Yeoman plow shanks, as well as places in the U.S. and abroad where you can find the various coppice species, as well as some of the specialty tools, including the Woodsman’s Pal. Also, one of my preferred vendors for hand tools, Lee Valley, happens to carry a billhook and froe. I have both on order and will review them when they arrive. You can reach Mark via email: coppiceagroforestry@gmail.com and learn more about his work at: Keyline Vermont Coppice Agroforestry Three Species for a Beginning Coppicer

  • Basswood / Linden (Tilia americana)
  • Willow (Salix L.)
  • Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia)

Mark's Recommended Tools for Coppice Work

  • Chainsaw
  • Bowsaw
  • Billhook
  • Sledgehammer and Wedges
  • Froe

Evergreens that Coppice

  • Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens)
  • Monkey Puzzle (Araucaria araucana)
  • Pitch Pine (Pinus rigida)
  • Bald Cypress (Taxodium distichum)
  • Pinyon Pine (Spp. unknown)
  • Juniper (Spp. unknown)

Resources: Keyline Design Plow Shanks A.H. Tuttle Market Farm Coppice Species Sources Willow

Basswood / Linden

Black Locust

Specialty Tools for Coppice Morris Tools (ToolNut.co.uk) Woodsman's Pal Lee Valley Bill hook Lee Valley Froe Are you practicing keyline design? Working the woods? Have questions after this episode? Let me know: E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: MarkKrawczyk)

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Ben Law - The Way of the Woodsman

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[caption width="200" align="alignleft"] Ben Law, Woodsman[/caption]My guest for this episode is Ben Law, woodsman, permaculture practitioner, and author of many books on developing, tending, and using the products that come from the woods. Some of those titles include The Woodland Way, and Roundwood Timber Framing. Mr. Law is a wealth of practical knowledge, and we touch on some of that in this conversation. As I seek out for this show, he is someone who practices what he teaches, continuously. Even as I spoke to him, he was out in the woods, running off of solar power. We begin the interview via landline and then switch to his mobile phone. I recommend listening to this episode in a relaxed and quieter environment because of those connection issues. This marks the first episode of July, 2014, and the start of my summer fundraising campaign. If you enjoy this podcast, help me keep it on the air by making a one time or on-going contribution. I can’t do this without your assistance. Visit the support page to find out how to donate. What I enjoyed about this episode is the encouragement to seek out the tools and knowledge to do what we feel called to do. To build a create a better world, we have to seek out what it is that matters to each of us, and be our own solution. Another take away is that we must take a long view. As Ben spoke about the shifting view of time, so do I see that if we’re going to think about tomorrow, and well beyond, then it requires a shift in our mindset to look further into the future and imagine what could be. For a good reminder of that long view listen to The Gift by Matt Winters. You can find out more about Mr. Law at: www.ben-law.co.uk How has your perspective of time, and place, changed since you started practicing permaculture? Let me know: E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: Ben Law)

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Rob Scott - A Critique of Permaculture

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My guest for this episode is Rob Scott, a permaculture practitioner who started and directed the Urbana Permaculture Project. He now teaches Education Policy, Organization, and Leadership at the University of Illinois. We spend our time in this interview discussing his 2010 article, “A Critical Review of Permaculture in the United States,” and offer a critique of permaculture, and permaculture education in the U.S., as they exist now, as well as what we can do to improve our permaculture practices in the landscape and education. If you enjoy this interview with Rob, please support the Permaculture Podcast so that I can keep things going. Become a one time or ongoing contributor by going to: thepermaculturepodcast.com/support to find out how. I consider this conversation as a start on what we can do to make permaculture more accessible and acceptable. What I would like is to begin a new project where we start documenting our permaculture successes and failures. I’d like you to write down what you’ve done, what’s worked, what hasn’t, and share it with me. Once some of these come in, with your permission, I’ll setup a section of the website where we can share and discuss the results and work on building our understanding of permaculture in the current era. Another piece of this is that I recently interviewed Elizabeth Farnsworth who works at the New England Wild Flower Society, who I mentioned in my coverage of the Native Plants Conference I attended a few weeks ago. She and I talked about the role of citizen scientists. In that discussion she reminded me that by being curious and asking “Why?” we are, each and everyone of us, scientists. So let’s collect data, and sometime in the not too distant future I’ll release that interview with Elizabeth to serve as further inspiration on that project. Finally, on the idea of education, it can occur whether we are formally trained in teaching, or not. Just as I set out “The Plan” a few months ago detailing my ideas for teaching young adults and adult in a holistic way, Jen Mendez at Permie Kids is actively working on developing ideas for childhood education and permaculture through a series of topical webinars she’s calling the “Edge Alliance.” I’d like you to take a look and get involved if you are a parent of school age children, or an educator of the same. Resources Rob Scott A Critical Review of Permaculture in the United States A Review of Suitable Companion Crops for Black Walnut (PDF) Edge Alliance Do you Have a Critique of Permaculture? Let me know: E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: RobScott)

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Susquehanna Permaculture Round Table (Part 2)

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This is part two of the Susquehanna Permaculture Round discussion with Jon Darby, Rafiyqa Muhammad, Shannon Sylte, and Ben Weiss.


The round table panelists. From the left: Jon Darby, Rafiyqa Muhammad, Shannon Sylte, and Ben Weiss.

Begin with part one if you are new to the show or would like a refresher. Recorded in front of a live audience, the panelists were:

The questions for this first round included:

  • What is the best way to use chickens in a permaculture design?
  • How do we combine disciplines within permaculture?
  • How do we include non-native species, and discuss natives vs. non-natives with customers?
  • Should permaculture be taken mainstream?
  • Should we use the word permaculture when discussing these practices with others?
  • How do societal institutions impact the opportunity to raise capital and enact change in modern agriculture?
  • How can we make permaculture more inclusive, particularly of women and people of color?

When you've finished listening if you would like to learn more from Rafiyqa's many years as a civic leader in Harrisburg, actively engaging communities and local politics, so that you can do the same here is her information available.

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Faith and Earthcare: Rhamis Kent - Islam (Part 3)

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This is the third, and last, episode in the series with Rhamis Kent covering Islam and Earth Care.

If you haven’t listened to the first two, you’ll want to begin there before hearing this show, or if you heard them originally and want a refresher. You’ll find those past episodes here: Islam, Ethics, and Earth Care with Rhamis Kent (Part 1) Faith and Earthcare: Islam with Rhamis Kent (Part 2) Much of the conversation in this episode is about being responsible for our own lives, and for having dignity and respect for others. I appreciate this discussion for the openness that Rhamis brought to the interview, and the space we created in which to hold the conversation. The topics aren’t easy, but they need to be talked about. Thankfully, Rhamis is a gifted speaker who brought patience and understanding to the interview, even as we spoke for many, many, hours. When putting the other episodes for this series together, I thought I would end with a long commentary to close out this three part interview with Rhamis. I don't, however, have a long commentary to end with, rather, this series stands on it's own. My final thoughts are this: to take care of one another, we must know each another. Sometimes that is easy, when we are with people like ourselves. Sometimes that is hard, when we don’t have the means to understand a person and their background, but through a dialogue, a conversation, we can begin down the road of knowing them. Until the next time, reach out and get to know someone better than you do already so that we can truly create the world we want to see. If there’s any way I can help you, let me know. Email: The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: RhamisKentThree)

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Review: The Market Gardener

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This episode is a review of Jean-Martin Fortier’s book The Market Gardener.

Before we begin, this show is supported by listeners. If you enjoy this show and would like to hear more like it, go to www.thepermaculturepodcast.com/support to make a one time or ongoing monthly contribution. The Market Gardener As always, I’m a fan of people who write books on subjects that they know well, especially when that expertise comes through in their writing and the final product. That’s true with this book, and was reflected in my interview with Jean-Martin, which is out later this year. For those of you interested in small scale farming, like I discussed with my friend Erin Harvey or what Peter Bane outlines in The Permaculture Handbook, The Market Gardener is a good companion. This is a practical book about starting and running your own operation. Inside you’ll find what Jean-Martin is able to do on one and a half acres, and the life that he enjoys as a result with his wife and children. He discusses the start-up and production costs, the process of direct selling, value added crops, and how to learn how to garden. You'll also read about finding the right site, including climate, having enough growing space, and access to water. You'll see his layout and design of his market garden is also included, which you can easily compliment and expand on by applying the principles of permaculture. Further he has the tools you’ll need, how to fertilize, how to starting seeds, managing weeds, pests, and diseases, extending the season, harvesting and storage, and crop planning. That quick list covers the first 2/3rds of the book. The final third is divided between five appendices including Crop Notes, Tools and Suppliers, Garden Plan, and an Annotated Bibliography and Glossary. Those details are you can expect to find between the covers, but that’s not why I really like this book for someone interested in starting a market farm. Rather, I like the transparency that is present in all the myriad of tables discussing things like the start-up costs (p 9), the sales figures for Jean-Martin’s own farm (p 14), or the various amounts of fertilizer that he uses (p 56). Though these amounts will vary, often widely, based on where you live, there is something here to get started with, to get an idea of whether or not you can afford to get started and use the information presented as a model for your work. There are more tables and pictures showing the garden layout as it exists on the ground, a 10-year crop rotation, planting dates, production calculations, tips for setting up a washing station, a harvesting list to begin each harvest day and create a priority of work flow, and on and on. Much of the guess work of small scale farming is taken away and you can focus on learning about your local area, including the best things to plant, the markets to reach out to, and getting started growing. Even if you’re not a market gardener or looking to farm professionally and just want to grow more food for your family, this is a good resource for a Zone 1 vegetable garden in a permaculture design. I wish I had had this book, and Peter Bane’s, earlier in my permaculture career, especially when designing my front yard garden. Even though I joke that I’m an awful gardener, and that self-deprecating position still applies to my personal assessment, I do enjoy working with in the soil, and look forward to using the ideas presented in Jean-Martin Fortier’s The Market Gardener in the re-implementation of my front yard vegetable garden, and as my wife develops her herb and flower garden. You can find out more about this book at TheMarketGardener.com, where you can order a copy of the book directly from the author for $24.95 plus shipping. Contact the Show E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: 2014Byte0616)

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Permabyte: Back to Basics - Principle 5: Use and Value Renewable Resources and Services

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This episode continues the back-to-basics series by examining David Holmgren’s 5th principle of permaculture: Use and Value Renewable Resources and Services.

Before we begin, I would like to thank Ben Weiss of Susquehanna Permaculture, Yigal Deutscher of 7 Seeds, and Nati Passow of the Jewish Farm School for sponsoring this episode. You can join these three instructors from August 6 -13 in West Philadelphia for “Shmita & Urban Permaculture Design.” During this one week intensive they’ll merge the ancient wisdom of the Shmita, or Sabbatical, Year with permaculture. These sources of wisdom and knowledge will be used to provide participants with a foundation of understanding to create a range of sustainable initiatives for home and community. Find out more at: jewishfarmschool.org/urbanpermaculture/ Now then, David Holmgren’s 5th principle of permaculture: Use and Value Renewable Resources and Services This principle bears the subheading, “Let nature take it’s course.” If we value our renewable resources, we must use them appropriately. To use them appropriately, we must value them. Through use we can discover the ways in which resources have more yields. To ask the question, “What can I receive, or be given, from something?” Rather than, “What can I take from it?” If you’ve never read it, I recommend Daniel Quinn’s Ishmael. Mr. Quinn tells an allegorical story of leavers and takers and the impacts those choices have on society. Ben Weiss suggested this book during my Permaculture Design Course, and several listeners have written in to ask about Mr. Quinn’s work, and one of my professors made it one of the choices of required reading for a course on Environmental Education, so Ishmael is on my recommended reading list. Why use renewable resources? Because being mindful of our use of something that naturally regenerates, we can use it indefinitely. That long view that stretches beyond our own life horizon, to allow generation after generation to have access to the surpluses we can build in this life time. For me this is why we, as permaculture practitioners, are shepherds and stewards of the earth. We do our best in our own little section of the world, as suggested by Michael Pilarski, to clean it up, make it better, make it last, and pass it on to someone else who has the knowledge and skills to tend it after we’re gone. But if we don’t act in a regenerative, if we take, and take, and take, then what will be left? What will be permanent about our choices? From there, what are our renewable resources? Our biological resources such as plants, animals, fungi, and bacteria, and those resources that result from natural cycles: water, wind, and sun. We expand our options and opportunities because we can use these resources passively and actively. A “classic,” if you will, example from the permaculture literature is to have south facing windows that allow for the passive collection of solar energy into our homes. Building arbors along that side of the building with vining plants that leaf out in the summer provide shade when it is needed but can then die back in winter to allow more of the sun in. Another one of those common examples is the chicken. Actively we can gain eggs and meat. Passively the chicken provides fertilization, soil disturbance, companionship, pest removal, and so much more. One of the projects on my list, is to plant a functional hedgerow along the eastern edge of the yard. Passively, it provides a designated path for the people who visit the stream along the land here, provides habitat for birds, rabbit, and other small animals. It also can act as a filter and trap during floods. Actively, depending on how it is ultimately planted, I can harvest wood or food from the hedgerow. The list goes on and on and on when you being looking at the services and resources available to us within the framework of a set of permaculture principles. Rather than continue this sort of listing, some other episodes I recommend you listen to in order to round out this conversation and the idea of renewable resources are:

  • Ethan Hughes. The community where he lives, the Stillwater Sanctuary, embodies this principle because they live without electricity and petrol, and live within many of the bounds and bounties of renewable resources and services. (Part 1) (Part 2)
  • Bob Theis. His recommendations about natural building, what we can do where we are, and where we live now, expands on how to interact with the built environment while considering this principle. His recommendations have had a big impact on many of my choices. (Part 1) (Part 2)

There is a question inherent within this principle what technologies are appropriate in a permaculture future, including whether or not the application of solar and wind energy, through solar PV and large turbines, should be used. I’m still working my way through that question because one of my goals includes being able to keep the lights on and the internet running. While I'm undecided, I’d like to hear your thoughts on this matter. Contact the Show E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Facebook: Facebook.com/ThePermaculturePodcast Twitter: @permaculturecst The Permaculture Podcast with Scott Mann The Permaculture Podcast (Episode: 2014Byte0613)

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