Rhonda Baird - Organizing and Supporting Our Communities

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Rhonda Baird, the editor of Permaculture Design Magazine and teacher and designer at Sheltering Hills Design, LLC., joins me to continue our conversation about creating change. In our first interview, we spoke about the way that we can work on ourselves as individuals. Today we move from the inside to the out with how we can organize and support others and our community.

In that frame, we look at the tools you can add to your toolkit to do this work and build your, and other’s, competencies. Some of those include Theory U, nonviolent communication, and dynamic governance (sociocracy). We also look at facilitation and what it means to step into a role of leadership.

Find Rhonda at https://www.shelteringhills.net/ and Permaculture Design Magazine, which she edits, at https://www.permaculturedesignmagazine.com/

What I keep coming back to from this conversation is that everything we talked about, from nonviolent communication to facilitation, and even leadership, are all skills you can learn. Though I’ve met a number of people who through charisma and their presence come across as natural leaders you can be taught how to lead others in the moment or on a project. This doesn’t require talent or exceptional abilities, just a desire to learn to lead.

A resource that can help you with this is the book, The Leadership Challenge. Based on copious research of businesses large and small, this has gone through multiple editions and printings and is one of the best I’ve ever encountered on organizational leadership and development. This has influenced countless leaders over the years and was required reading during graduate school.

If there is anything you would like to learn more about, let me know. Leave a comment below.

Additional Resources
On Feedback - The School of Life
The Four Agreements (Wiki)
Regenpreneurs

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What was, what is, what may come.

[caption id="attachment_4368" align="aligncenter" width="610"] Photo: © Anna Rutkovskaya - Dreamstime.com[/caption]

Welcome to the final episode of 2018.

In a few hours we’ll transition to the New Year. As I do every year as what was comes to an end, this is a time to look back over everything that has happened in the preceding twelve months and prepare for those ahead.

Sometimes I’ve put together a “best of” list for the year, but the idea of doing that any more is like asking which of my children I love more. Each one shines in their own particular moments, and, in the end, I do love them all equally, so this year I want to highlight some episode that provides an overview of the many places we explored together in 2018.

The first was with Fred Provenza when we used his book Nourishment to talk about diet and reclaiming our nutritional wisdom. Though we stayed focused on food and the three main influences he’s identified that cause us to like a particular taste, underlying that conversation was a discussion of self-care and seeing to the wellbeing of our mind, body, and spirit. What we can do to make the choices that really are the best for ourselves. To recognize that any path suggested by another is just a model and we have to make those choices, guided by our own intuition and the advice of others we trust.

Related to those ideas of making our best choices were the pair of conversations with Victoria Redhed Miller who walked us through her work on Craft Distilling and the steps required to make booze at home. One of the most significant issues was of legality and we took nearly an hour to cover her journey and the problems that arose along the way so that we can make an informed decision, should we follow in her footsteps, and know that many of our practices, for better or worse, are illegal.

Knowing the bounds of those laws, we can seek to change them by getting involved politically. Making that choice was the basis of the most controversial and commented on episode of the year, the discussion with Joshua Hughes about permaculture and politics. Whether or not you agree with his particular take on this issue and what the best ways to be politically active really are, we certainly pushed the edge of the conversation about what permaculture ethics in practice can look like to influence policy or action.

David Bilbrey, who joined me this year as an ongoing co-host, builds on the ideas discussed with Joshua regarding the public sector with a look at the private. He does this through his discovery of the intersection between permaculture and business, which was highlighted by a visit to the ReGen18 conference where he met with and recorded many short interviews with regenerative business thought leaders, include Stuart Cowan and Kevin Jones. He also met and had a moving conversation with Kanyon Coyote Woman about Indian Canyon, Decolonizing, and Indigenous Value Systems. His work at ReGen18, also lead to the final interview of this year, an extended discussion with Joel Solomon about how to transform our current financial system. I encourage you to seek all of those out, as well as David’s interview with the founder of Theory U, Otto Scharmer.

The show that set the tone for the entire year was the episode that started us off when my friend Wilson Alvarez spoke about his work with The Reintegration Project, which is hosted at The Horn Farm Center in York County, Pennsylvania. Together we talked about how to restore the landscape by mimicking four ecosystem engineers: wolves, beavers, ancient humans, and the proboscideans. Through that hands-on work, he also shared how the act of landscape restoration reconnects human beings to the spaces we once tended, to the garden of Earth, and the bounty of the world. Later in the year I visited Wilson at the project and recorded a walking tour of The Reintegration Project, where you can see this work in practice and see the places, and hear the stories of the people, transformed through nurturing activity.

Visit the 2018 Episode Index

You’ll, of course, find links to that video and these episodes in the show notes for this end of year recap. You’ll also see a link to a public post on Patreon of the 2018 Episode Index, which is a chronological list of all 40 interviews released this year.

From those episodes, there are also some books that I would like to recommend to you, ones not written by the authors who appeared on the podcast. These are all books I read this year and think you should read in 2019.

The first is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Robin weaves together her personal heritage with her love of plants and the environment with prose that border on poetry. As I hope to interview Robin in 2019, I’ll save any further discussion until then.

Second is Coyote America by Dan Flores. I came to learn of Dan and this book as he wrote the forward to one of my favorite books of 2018, Eager by Ben Goldfarb. In Coyote America Dan weaves together a tale that takes us from creation myths to the modern day, and how the Coyote is indicative of humanity’s relationship with the world. At times humorous and haunting, this is one of the best pieces of nature writing I’ve ever read and place it on the same level as Rachel Carson or Aldo Leopold.

Finally, is Atlas of a Lost World by Craig Childs. Though I don’t always enjoy his writing style or forays into his personal journey, Craig more than makes up for this with the places he takes us and evidence presented for how long humanity has populated the Americas. This book serves as a companion to tie together other narratives by guests like Kanyon, or other books worth reading like Robin’s.

These three books are all written as stories that you can sit down and enjoy for the pleasure. For reference and inspiration, which is pleasing in it’s own way, thanks to the art by Brenna Quinlan and art direction of Richard Telford, get a copy of David Holmgren’s RetroSuburbia (Australia) (North America) This is an absolute magnificent permaculture book for where most people live: in and around cities. It has also supplanted the Designers’ Manual as my initial go to when looking for ideas and solutions.

You can listen to my earlier interview with David Holmgren to learn more about RetroSuburbia. I’ve also asked co-host David Bilbrey to sit down and record an interview with David Holmgren so the two of them can dig into this rich text from David Bilbrey’s perspective, and to add a different voice to the conversation since I’ve already recorded several conversations with David Holmgren in the past.

Along with that David and I are taking your feedback from the past year to plan for the next. As we’ve spent a lot of time on the social and economic sides of permaculture, we’re bringing on guests with experience in more practical areas, including homesteading, more natural building, ethnobotany, and propagating plants. We also already have some interview recorded and in production on the business of mushroom spawn, community building, spoon carving and coppicing, and more.

We also organized dozens of giveaways for books and magazines, so be sure to check out the feed at patreon.com/permaculturepodcast to see what we’re up to throughout 2019. That’s also where we post bonus material, hold monthly ask-me-anything threads, share weekly updates, take ongoing listener suggestions, and so much more.

Along the way through the new year, we’re here to do whatever we can to help you on your journey with permaculture and creating the world you want to live in.

If you want to reach out to David Bilbrey directly, his email address is david@thepermaulturepodcast.com

You can reach me at The Permaculture Podcast by calling or write:

The Permaculture Podcast

The Permaculture Podcast

Until David and I join you again with new episodes, wherever the new year takes you, may you spend each day living the life you desire, while taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

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Joel Solomon - Whole System Economics

Where has our relationship with money and capital gone wrong as individuals and as a society? What do we have to do to get right with that relationship? In the last interview of the year, co-host David Bilbrey sits down with Joel Solomon to examine those questions and talk about how we can change the dominant economic system.

To cover all of that requires a wide-ranging discussion that includes wealth, politics, the commons, consciousness, care for those around us, and much more. Find out more about Joel's work to return the balance between finance, capital, and economics at joelsolomon.org. Find out more about Renewal Funds at renewalfunds.com.

As this is the final interview of the year and last episode before the holiday break, I’d like to leave you with three questions we’ll revisit again in a few weeks:

- What do you care about?
- What do you believe in?
- How much is enough?

If you’d like to share your thoughts with me directly, leave a comment below. 

Until the next time, spend each day considering your role and impact on the world while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other. 

Resources
Joel Solomon
The Renewal Fund
Clean Money Revolution
Velocity of Money (Wiki)
Braiding Sweetgrass

Related Interviews 
Joel Solomon - Regen18: Politics and The Clean Money Revolution 
Dr. Otto Scharmer - Theory U and the Emerging Future 
David Bollier - The Commons

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Fred Provenza - Nourishment and Reclaiming our Nutritional Wisdom

The renowned animal behaviorist Fred Provenza joins me to talk about how we can reconnect with the foods that feed our bodies and reclaim our nutritional wisdom.

Visit Our Partner: Food Forest Card Game

Drawing on decades of research with animals, upon retirement from Utah State University he turned his lens towards human beings to pull together the best studies and his own personal journey to provide a way we can begin to eat well for ourselves by outlining where we’ve gone wrong and what we can do to make a positive change.

You can find Fred's book, Nourishment, at chelseagreen.com.

What do you think of what Fred shares with us today? Can you see the relationships between flavor-feedback, culture, and alternative availability on our nutritional wisdom? Let me know by leaving a comment below.

Resources
Nourishment
Chemical Ecology (Wiki)
Dying To Be Me by Anita Moorjani
Edward R Murrow’s This I Believe (Wiki)

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Lindsey Bender - Mushrooms and Mycology

My guest today is Lindsey Bender, the chief mycologist for Field and Forest Products, Inc., a mushroom spawn and supply company located in Wisconsin.

I met Lindsey at the Pennsylvania Mother Earth News Fair in 2018 when I stopped to check in with Laura of Field and Forest, who I’ve gotten to know over the years through phone calls asking questions about mushrooms and other products and meeting one another at the fair several years ago. This time Lindsey was along for the trip. Once we started talking about all things fungi, she started answering some of my questions in very technical ways that lead us to talk about her background. Through that I learned she became a mycologist after many years studying biology at the undergraduate and graduate levels, which we get into in more depth during her introduction. In this interview, you’ll hear about her work on keeping the genetic lines of the fungi used for spawn production healthy and experiments related to the interactions between fungi, plants and soil microbiology. She also shares why some mushrooms are commercially viable, and others are not, including some of our favorites like morels and why those cannot reliably be grown from spawn, and different ways to shock fungi to force fruiting and induce mushroom production. Whether you are new to mushroom cultivation or been growing for years, there’s something here for everyone to learn more about fungi and mycology. Find out more about Lindsey and Field and Forest Products, Inc. at fieldforest.net.

What did you think about this conversation with Lindsey? Does it change your view of mushrooms, mushroom growing, and what is possible? Let me know. Leave a comment below. 

Resources
Field and Forest Products, Inc. Three-Season Mushroom Gardens (Video)

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Karl Treen - Permaculture Play and Design Considerations

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My guest today is Karl Treen of Food Forest Card Game. He joins me to share where his life has gone since our interview last year.

A longtime permaculture practitioner, Karl is one of the people whose work I follow off the air and I find quite a bit of inspiration from what he’s doing with his card game and working on implementing his designs in an urban environment where he lives in Rhode Island near the Atlantic Coast here in the United States. Though we’ve never met in person, knowing Karl as I do we wound talking as soon as we connected without a formal start to the interview. As a result what you’re about to hear drops directly into the conversation, but is not where we began nor ultimately where we ended when I turned off the recording. Where we do pick up is a few moments after he shared that he made a move to a new house with a larger yard and how this change influences his permaculture work. Along the way, we talk about a variety of thoughts. Those include different uses for his game inside the permaculture or school classroom; accepting that we can’t know everything and with that what we can do to be better teachers and designers; and why Instagram is our favorite place to learn and share new ideas, and some folks he recommends following. Find out more about Karl and his work at foodforestcardgame.com. While you are there consider picking up a couple of sets of cards as stocking stuffers for the holidays and introduce your friends and family to permaculture design. I also recommend following Karl on Instagram. As we mentioned there at the end of the interview, you can find him at foodforestcardgame. In his feed, you can see images from his mushroom logs, which he inoculated a few days after recording this interview in early November. You’ll find links to his Instagram account, his mushroom project, and the people he mentioned worth following in the show notes. To go with this interview, I’m giving away a deck of Food Forest Card Game cards and a copy of Mary Appelhof’s Worms Eat my Garbage. I like sitting down with Karl to talk about his work because I find what he’s doing, even after his many years of practice, reflects the experiences of other permaculture folks who work a job, have a little bit of land and are doing the best they can. As with his conversation about composting and black soldier flies, we have many decisions to make on what works best for us, our design, and goals. Yes, he has the perfect start to growing the fly larva, but at this time there are other places to focus his time and energy. Though he’s studied permaculture; created a design and education aid for the community, and remains connected with myself and others; he still finds inspiration from others. By focusing on a particular area for practice, he expands his knowledge, and direct experience becomes an in-depth resource for anyone who contacts him, while still absorbing what interests him from others. Similarly, as I continue down my own path, my own role is influenced by sitting in the chair as the show host, to have conversations with guests, read the latest books and newest articles, and act as a curator of information about permaculture. To pull upon all these connections to help you find the people, books, organizations, and resources that help you meet your goals. As one of my teachers used to say, to be a guide on the side rather than a sage on the stage. Continuing to stay in touch with Karl and others in our community, I’d like to have more casual conversations like this. We can learn so much from the informal understanding of the day to day lives of others putting the ideas of permaculture into practice.

If there’s someone who appeared on the show in the past that you thought I had a good conversation with and you’d like to hear back on the air for something less formal, let me know.

Leave a comment below.

Resources
Food Forest Card Game
Foodforestcardgame on Instagram
Haskap Edible Honeysuckle
Karl’s Mushroom Inoculation
Patrick Whitefield

Instagrams Worth Following
The Permaculture Podcast
That Vinegar Guy
Greenwood Farm
Veggie Garden Vermont

 

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Kanyon Coyote Woman - Indian Canyon, Decolonizing, and Indigenous Value Systems

The Permaculture Podcast Tree with Roots Logo

In this episode co-host David Bilbrey sits down with the teacher, activist, and permaculture practitioner Kanyon Sayers-Roods, also known as Coyote Woman, to talk about her work on the land at Indian Canyon, California to educate and inspire others in their understanding of the natural world, the connections between individuals and communities, and what we can do to approach our interactions with humility.

During their conversation Kanyon and David also touch on the history of Indian Canyon and the role this location had for native peoples of California, being thoughtful with our words and actions, and considering the impacts our choices have on ourselves, our descendants, and the land.

Find out more about Kanyon’s work at indiancanyonlife.org.

There is a lot to unpack from this conversation, with more emerging with each additional listen. I realized that my thoughts on what was expressed could easily take an hour or more to explore all the threads and thoughts that Kanyon raised, so I’ll try to keep this shorter than that. A piece that continues to resonate is what we can do to ask better questions and seek deeper understanding. I hear this in Kanyon’s words when talking about the role of cultural recognition and identity and asking from a place of humility. To know the history of the land beyond the physical impacts of industry or previous development, but also of those who called that land home and how they got there. To recognize the distinction of being native to a place versus being indigenous to it. One of the reasons I found permaculture appealing decades ago was that as Bill wrote about the foundational ideas in the Designers’ manual, something that stood out was that what we are doing in our thought and design processes to look for what we can give and then receive in return. We build relationships in reciprocity. Let’s take that a step further and deepen our work to honor and respect those people who came before us and how they knew and worked the land. We have a lot to learn and a lot to share. 

What are your thoughts after hearing this interview with Kanyon? Leave a comment below. 

Resources
Indian Canyon Life
Kanyon Sayers-Roods
Kanyon Konsulting
Dawes Act of 1887

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Clare Kenny of The Mudgirls - Natural Building, Community, and Opportunity

Clare Kenny of The Mudgirls Natural Building Collective joins me to continue our conversation about how she and the other of the group come together to create community and opportunity with natural building, and the lessons they share through The Mudgirls Manifesto, a book they wrote together which was released earlier this year.

From those broad themes we also narrow in on what it is like to create our own models and live differently, knowing we have allies in the world who are there to help us, but may not be able to guide us. Through our role as leaders, facilitators, and educators, we can make our knowledge and skills more accessible by looking for different ways of doing and enrich our own lives and those of others.

You can find Clare and the work of The Mudgirls at mudgirls.ca and their book at NewSociety.com.

Though we talked about it early on in this conversation, in Clare's message I'm reminded of something mentioned before on the show: You are not alone. Someone, somewhere, is working on a similar project or problem as you are, but in this broad and disparate world we can lose that sometimes. Not knowing who to reach out to or where to find those kindred spirits. They are out there and I’m here to help connect you with them, whether you hear them in an interview, or want to reach out so I can help you find them.

If you'd like to get in touch, leave a comment below.

Until the next time, spend each day creating the world you want to live in by taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Resources
The Mudgirls Natural Building Collective
Mudgirls Manifesto
New Society Publishers

Related Interview
The Mudgirls Natural Building Collective (Interview)

Recommended Reading
Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber
The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer

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The Reintegration Project Tour (Video)

The Permaculture Podcast Tree with Roots Logo

In early October 2018, Wilson Alvarez took me on a tour of his work at Horn Farm Center for Agriculture Education in York County, Pennsylvania. On that land, Wilson works to restore the damaged ecosystem by mimicking the disturbances created by beavers, wolves, humans, and the proboscideans: elephants, mammoths, and mastodons.

All of this is part of a larger effort he calls The Reintegration Project which aims to embed human beings back in the land through the act of restoration. Wilson does this by creating and sharing the tools, techniques, skills, and community necessary to empower current and future generations to take up this task and create a more beautiful world in harmony with nature.

You can follow Wilson on Instagram @Wil717, and see more of his work and other projects at Horn Farm Center by visiting hornfarmcenter.org

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Joshua Hughes - Permaculture Politics and a Compassionate Future

This is an atypical episode of the show as you can probably tell from the title. In this conversation, I sit down with Joshua Hughes of VerdEnergia Pacifica and Blacksheep Regenerative Resource Management to talk about the intersection of permaculture and politics to engage, get involved, and change the system to create the world we want to live in.

Yes, Joshua has strong views on the state of the world and why things are as bad as they are. Depending on your position, you may not like some of what he has to say but stick with us. This isn't a left versus right fight, but we do have to talk about some of that to frame the conversation. In the end, this is about sovereignty, consent, and compassion: what we have in common with one another that we can organize around and fight together, as a community, for what we love. You can find Joshua on Twitter @FarmEvolution42 or by searching Revolutionary Farmer. As he also says at the end of our time together you can email him: joshuapeaceseeker@gmail.com. In the show notes I also link to his other projects, and our earlier interviews together. Reach out to us if we can make a difference and to continue the conversation.

Leave a comment a comment below. 

 
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