This specialty in landscapes forms our conversation today as we discuss his design process of creating meadows. This includes:

• Using nurse crops for establishing a meadow.
• Designing with a variety of plant heights, bloom colors, and a resilient mix of species in mind.
• How to make meadows appear intentional as well as appealing to neighbors.
• Using grasses as the framework that ties a meadow together.
• The role of a meadow in an ecological landscape.
• Workhorse plants for our designs.
• Getting started with our own meadow.

Find out more about him and his work at AboundDesign.com, and his book, Lawns into Meadows, at stonepierpress.org.

Become a Patreon Supporter

Make a One-Time Donation to the Podcast

Schedule a Call with Scott

Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter.

As permaculture practitioners, establishing meadows can form an important part of our design toolkit. We can leave an area barren, but intentionally tended around, and allow the seed bank to grow up and select from the species that arise as the base for a meadow, or what to leave intact as we establish a food forest or design around for our garden paths. In areas with restrictive covenants on trees and tree heights, or in towns with weed ordinances, meadows can be a beautiful way to restore the landscape while skirting those restrictions. If we live along waterways or as farmers trying to reduce the total daily load from runoff and fertilizer, and to reduce topsoil losses, buffer strips of meadows along our streams and rivers can improve water conditions while saving our earth.

But, those are just my thoughts on meadows at the moment. What are yours?

Get in touch by leaving a comment below or sending me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day restoring the landscape and establishing meadows, while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Resources

Abound Design

Lawns into Meadows

Pollinator Pathways

Xerces Society for Invertebrate Conservation

Ladybird Johnson Wildflower Center

Wild Ones Native Plants, Natural Landscapes

Become a Patreon Supporter

Using years of research and action, Jeff shows how cities become better places when we move away from an automobile-focused life. As I spend a lot of my time walking through cities whenever I get a chance, preferring to travel on foot when possible, I knew there were some places that felt safer as a pedestrian and were generally more enjoyable to walk through. Jeff lays out exactly why that is, and what each of us can do to advocate for these changes in our local towns and cities. In the process we can limit gentrification, which Jeff expands on during the interview, making cities even friendlier to people and more sustainable for generations to come.

You can find Jeff and his book at JeffSpeck.com. In addition to his website, I’ve included copious links in the resources section below for you to learn more about what we talked about in this interview.

Since recording this conversation, I’ve gone on to read Jeff’s Walkable City Rules, which lays out in even more actionable detail what we can do to show up at planning meetings and be a force for change while preserving mainstreet and reducing the impacts of climate change.

As permaculture practitioners, our roles in cities and towns change towards an even more human focus to minimize the impacts of this increased living density on the surrounding environment and designing for living in place. For those of us who live in cities, and I’ll be doing so in just a few weeks as I relocate to Falls Church, Virginia, there’s a huge intersection between city planning, including the parks and rec departments, for us to get involved and take direct action through advocacy. We can argue for why we need to reduce speed limits, increase street trees, and expand green spaces.

Image the more beautiful, verdant world we could have.

But, that’s just my thoughts on leaving this interview with Jeff Speck. What are yours? Leave a comment in the show notes or get in touch by sending me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day advocating for the place you live while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Related Interview

The Commons - David Bollier

Resources

Jeff Speck

Books

Walkable City - Jeff Speck

Walkable City Rules - Jeff Speck

Suburban Nation - Andres Duany, Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, and Jeff Speck

The Barefoot Architect - Johan van Lengen
The Color of Law - Richard Rothstein

The New Jim Crow - Michelle Alexander

Policing the Open Road - Sarah E. Seo

The Death and Life of Great American Cities - Jane Jacobs

Garden Cities: Theory and Practice of Agrarian Urbanism - Andres Duany

People and Organizations

DPZ CoDesign - Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk

Human Transit - Jarrett Walker

Jan Gehl - Making Cities for People

Related Ideas

Community Land Trust (Wiki)

A Pattern Language (Wiki)

Seaside - Resort Community designed by Andres Duany and Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk

Serenbe

I first became aware of Rony years ago through my friends at the Finger Lakes Permaculture Institute, but what I knew up until he and I sat down barely revealed the depth and breadth of his exploration and implementation permaculture. He leverages decades of experience applying permaculture to indigenous agricultural methods, and combines work, outreach, and activism into a cohesive approach to teaching and design.

The conversation which follows progresses from his early days of discovering permaculture through Ali Sharif and studying with Geoff Lawton, to his current work building networks and native food products. He also shares his concerns about land access, food sovereignty, and political will in Mesoamerica.

Find out more about Rony and his work at imapermaculture.org. 

Become a Patreon of The Permaculture Podcast
Buy the show a cup of coffee

Just as interviews end far too soon, it is also difficult to encapsulate the thoughts that remain after a conversation that ranges as widely as this and touches on issues bigger than our individual practices.

What I enjoy, at this moment, is Rony’s efforts to educate students about what permaculture is and is not. For those people in the countries he serves, to share the ways that permaculture can be applied to indigenous practices and can be viewed as something for them, not just for foreigners. For those of us who have studied permaculture, the advice to listen, slow down, and remain humble in the face of experience and the intersection with our permaculture knowledge and exuberance.

But, that’s just one lesson from this time together. What did you learn?

Let me know by leaving a comment in the show notes or send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast.

Resources
Mesoamerican Permaculture Institute (IMAP)
http://imapermaculture.org/

Find out more about Delvin and his work, including his Permaculture Design Notes Book and the Permaculture Design Deck, at visionarypermaculture.com.

Become a Patreon patreon of The Permaculture Podcast
Buy the show a cup of coffee
Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter.

I’m a long-standing advocate of open-sourced ideas and technology, using them wherever possible. I produced the podcast on a Linux laptop for years, and continue to do most of the audio editing in Audacity, so enjoy Delvin’s approach to making as much of what he can readily available, while also acting as a curator to assemble the best of what he’s discovered. You can find all of those essentials, distilled down from his years of work, for free in various forms on his website. You can download the PDFs to read on your digital device. Print copies of the cards and games to play with and use as your own design oracles. And, if you prefer, you can also purchase physical copies from Delvin to further support the ongoing production of these ever-valuable tools.

Do you use any open-source tools or know someone else who curates knowledge to this level? Let me know.

Leave a comment in the show notes or send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day deepening your understanding of permaculture, while taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

Resources
Delvin & Grace Solkinson website
Free downloads of books, cards, and games
www.visionarypermaculture

Training Permaculture Teachers book by Rosemary Morrow 
Free download or on-demand printer edition
www.visionarypermaculture.com/trainingpermacultureteachers

Robin Clayfield teaching books, games and cards
www.dynamicgroups.com.au

Rosemary Morrow
www.bluemountainspermacultureinstitute.com.au

More games and tools at Kym Chi and Delvin’s site
www.permaculturedesign.ca 

Recent video and podcast with Geoff Lawton
www.youtu.be/rRcqdF7YcD4

Delvin Doctoral Slideshow 
www.youtu.be/3SAlzIlQPl0

Permaculture Institute : The Peoples Diploma 
www.permaculture.org/diploma

Permaculture Association Diploma
https://www.permaculture.org.uk/diploma

Permaculture Institute North America Diploma
https://pina.in/diplomas/

Australian TAFE Diploma
www.tafensw.edu.au/course/-/c/c/AHC52116-01/Diploma-of-Permaculture

Find more about Erin and her work at LIFTeconomy.com

21 Choice Perennial Vegetables for 4-Season Climates
Schedule with Scott
UTOPIA: a permaculture vision

This conversation with Erin touches on something I’ve been working on and speaking to other folks in the community, including Karryn Olsen and Dan Palmer, about over the last few months: how can we break through the limitations we find ourselves in as a result of, to borrow from Erin, business as usual. Particularly, how do we get the education, resources, and support to implement permaculture ethics and principles at a broad scale, both in and beyond the landscape, given the dire need to do so right now and for years to come. From climate change, to oppressive policing, to improving the land where we grow food, the problems we face are numerous, with much deeper issues underlying what we see at the surface. Each of us can make a meaningful difference whether we do so through individual action or collaborating with others to dismantle harmful systems.

But, as I’ve heard in your dozens of replies to my recent inquiries into The Permaculture Pit, doing so can be difficult given the forces we find in our own life that resist change. That includes the concern about debt through university schooling, the lack of land access, or finding a quality PDC program and after PDC mentoring.

What Erin shared with us, however, opens up many different doors. There are alternative paths to the experience and education we need to become a lawyer if we so desire. I looked into that one in particular and found four states in the U.S.—California, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington—which allow you to do so with no law school required, but by completing a Law Office Study Program. Three other states, New York, Maine, and Wyoming, also offer apprentice programs, but do require some law school.

Beyond the legal realm, there are also trade apprenticeships, if you want to go that route with your work. I’m also interested in exploring and speaking to others about the one-on-one permaculture mentor programs that are both less and more than a traditional Permaculture Design Course.

If you don’t have land or are not interested in land-based permaculture, but want to assist those who are, there are programs like Agrarian Trust. We can also, if life provides us a bountiful income, invest in those programs and others like them.. We can donate scholarship funds to Permaculture Design Courses. If you’ve taken a PDC, reach out to your old teachers and see if there is something you can do to support what they are currently doing.

Or send a student to LIFT Economy’s Next Economy MBA program.

Seek out and spend money are the stores owned and operated by women, indigenous, and people of color.

There’s also room for us to work on policy change in our local communities. Lobbying, I know that sounds like such a dirty word, to repeal and replace laws that limit agriculture. Fight for food justice and cottage food industries. Support farmers markets in communities lacking fresh foods. 

And, for those of us who are already teachers in the community, do you have the room and space in your life to mentor students beyond the class and classroom?

If you took a route outside business as usual to arrive where you are, let me know, so I can share these options with others via the podcast newsletter or in a future episode.

Leave a comment in the show notes or send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day creating the new economy, while taking care of Earth, yourself, and each other.

Resources
LIFT Economy
People of Color Sustainable Housing Network
Daily Acts
Agrarian Trust
Agrarian Commons Little Jubba in Maine
The Sustainable Economies Law Center
Cottage Food Law (California)
The Next Egg
The East Bay Permanent Real Estate Cooperative
Defund the Policy - Imagining a world without prisons and police
Map link for traditional homelands (Erin recommends including a land acknowledgement in your email signature)
Winona's Hemp & Heritage Farm
Greenwave
Native Conservancy
Jonas Philanthropies launches a 10M Tree Campaign

As we embody our values and live ever differently, how do we change the communities we are a part of as we become ever more apart from them?

This is one of many thoughts I have as we enter this conversation with Kai Sawyer, as we look at his life as a practitioner embracing peace, permaculture, and the gift economy to bring about social and cultural change in Japan.

Find out more about Kai Sawyer and his work at:

Tokyo Urban Permaculture
Living Permaculture

Something Kai wanted me to mention, that didn’t make it into our conversation is the ongoing impact and questions as a result of the Fukushima Daiichi power plant meltdown.

Something I didn’t know, that Kai shared in his follow-up email, is that Fukushima prefecture was one of the leading organic food growing regions in Japan.

What happens then, to the organic or natural farmer who carefully and with a lot of love, grew beautiful soil for decades that is now contaminated with cesium 134 and 137? Who will buy their produce? Who will help them rebuild their entire life?

Also in Fukushima prefecture was an innovative permaculture project at Iitate village that sought to redesign the community using permaculture to reverse the process of rural depopulation, to keep residents in this rural location rather than heading to the cities.

To Kai’s knowledge, it is the only initiative of the kind in Japan, one where an entire village was a permaculture design site. As you might imagine, the proximity to the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant and the ways the wind blew, high levels of radiation fell on the village, and their entire village was evacuated by the government.

A project to preserve the community, destroyed by a single disaster, responded to with modern practices now so ingrained they seem traditional and the only path forward.

How could this situation have been different if more communities in Japan were transformed by the whole systems design of permaculture and a chance to the cultural and social structures and consciousness?

As we grow as practitioners, how can we change these ways of thinking and organizing in our own communities and, in turn, change the way they are governed and inhabited?

If you have thoughts on this or anything else Kai and I spoke about, I’d love to hear from you.

Email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day creating the world you want to live in by taking care of Earth, yourself, and your community.

Resources
Tokyo Urban PermacultureLiving Permaculture
Peace and Permaculture Dojo Tour (Spring 2017) (YouTube)

The Center for Nonviolent Communication
Nonviolent Communication (Wiki)
Moved By Love, the Memoirs of Vinoba Bhave (Read Online at MKGhandi.org)
Bullock’s Permaculture Homestead
Humanure Handbook / Joe Jenkins

Iitate, Fukushima, a village scale permaculture project in Japan, evacuated due to the events at the Fukushima Daiichi Power Plants.
Living On The Edge of Fukushima

When not hanging out with his family or walking in the woods, you can find him reading about a wide range of subjects including simple living, foraging, native agriculture, natural building, “primitive” technology, philosophy, applied ecology, theology, and much more. He brings this knowledge to the table today as we discuss what he’s learning from the native plants of his ancestors.

The exploration of these plants and the related cultures provide insights into his place in the world and where he comes from. This leads to a conversation that ranges around a variety of thoughts including how we can learn more about plants and their uses by studying folk and Latin binomial names. What understanding ancestral plants can teach us about our identity. The impacts of colonization, on the colonized and colonizer. And being good mentors and ancestors now and for the future.

You can email Nate at nathanrupley@yahoo.com, with any comments, questions, if you want to rewild your yard, or, if you’re ever in Central Pennsylvania, would like to join him for a foraging class or plant walk.

Nate reminds me that wherever we come from before studying permaculture, whether doctor, tech nerd, stay at home parent, or an artist in a copy shop, there’s more to learn than any of us can accumulate, even if we had lifetimes to study, and what we learn along the way can take us to unexpected places. Even though we start in the landscape, discussing plants, animals, ecology, and design, we only begin there. If we’re interested, our exploration can take us to a myriad of different places, as we seek to practice not only where we are, but as who we are.  Whatever you are called to do, there is a place within the permaculture community for you.

What are you doing right now, that makes the world a more bountiful place? If you’re finding something difficult, or feel stuck, what would help to get you take your next step?

Until the next time, spend each day learning more about plants and your ancestors, while taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

Related Interviews

Wilson Alvarez on Biomimicry, Landcare and The Reintegration Project

Foraging with Sam Thayer

Beginning Foraging with Violet and Wildman Steve Brill

Resources

Nathan Carlos Rupley (Website)

Nathan Carlos Rupley (Patreon)

Nathan_Carlos_Rupley (Instagram)

Gathering on YouTube

Samuel Thayer / The Forager’s Harvest

Steve Brill

Backyard Medicine by Julie Bruton-Seal and Matthew Seal

Wild Urban Plants of the Northeast by Peter Del Tradici

Fandabi Dozi (YouTube)

Ron Eglash - The fractals at the heart of African designs (TED Talk)

Find out more about Rob and his work at TransitionNetwork.org and the other resources below.

If you are interested in starting your own transition town or want more information on the movement, let me know.

Email: The Permaculture Podcast

Until the next time, spend each day eating wild and creating the world you want to live in by taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

Resources
Transition Network
Rob Hopkin’s Blog
Reconomy Project
Atmos Totnes
Making Permaculture Stronger
LAND (Learning and Network Demonstration) Evidence based Permaculture
Green City Acres – Home of Curtis Stone, author of The Urban Farmer

What do you think of what Fred shared with David today? Are there places where you can favor biology over technology in your design? Do you make lifestyle decisions that have an impact on your use of resources and consumption?

I’d love to hear from you.

Email: The Permaculture Podcast

Connect with the Podcast
Patreon
Instagram
Twitter

Resources:
Aldo Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture at Iowa State University
Stone Barns Center for Food and Agriculture
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Sir Albert Howard
Dave Brown & Brown’s Ranch

Books
How to Thrive in the Next Economy by John Thackara
Growing a Revolution: Bringing our Soil Back to Life by David R. Montgomery
Building the Agricultural City – A Handbook for Rural Renewal by Robert Wolf
Collapse by Jared Diamond

First, there are a bevy of new interviews to look forward to. Some of those include a conversation with Nathan Carlos Rupley on the role of plants in understanding and healing our past trauma, both personal and systemic. Laura Oldanie of Rich and Resilient Living shares her expertise in creating a regenerative lifestyle, and Erin Axelrod of LIFT Economy focuses on the intersection of permaculture and economics. I’ll release the interviews as they come together in the weeks ahead while continuing to intermix episodes from the archives along the way.

I’m planning to release an additional 20 or so new interviews in the months ahead. Though I have a long list of potential guests, due to scheduling issues, we can’t always work something out. If you have any suggestions for someone to appear on the show, leave a comment or send an email to The Permaculture Podcast.

Intermixed with the singular episodes featuring particular guests, I’m also looking at series that examine a particular topic in-depth across multiple episodes. Some currently in development include Biodynamic Agriculture and Decolonizing Permaculture. If you have any thoughts on something to cover, let me know.

Additionally, as you know, I love helping people share their stories as guests on the show. I am now taking this a step further by offering two courses in the months ahead.

The first is Storytelling for Personal Transformation. We’ll spend a year in this mentored program, starting on the upcoming Summer Solstice, to explore your values, goals, and desires, as well as who you are, who you were, and the story you tell yourself. In the end, you’ll emerge with the personal knowledge and skills to master your inner and outer worlds, empowered to tell a new story.

Registration for this course is open, but closes soon, on June 17th. If you are interested, check out the complete details at thepermaculturepodcast.com/storytelling and register today.

The second is a class on podcasting that starts on September 1st and will take you from developing the idea for your own show to releasing your first complete episode within 8 weeks. Using my more-than-a-decade in radio and podcasting, I’ll show you how to inexpensively record, edit, produce, and release your ideas to the world, even if you don’t have a website or background in broadcasting.

Registration for this class is open, but spaces are limited. Find out more at thepermaculturepodcast.com/podcasting and enroll now.

I’ve also been receiving a number of calls from listeners lately. To make communicating with each other easier, I’ve set up an account with Calendly where you can choose the best day and time for us to talk.

Even with amazing partners, listener support remains important for this show to thrive and grow. You can become an ongoing member of the Patreon community at patreon.com/permaculturepodcast, make a one-time donation at paypal.me/permaculturepodcast

Finally, thank you for the many years we’ve spent together, exploring the edges of what it means to practice permaculture. This October marks 10 years since graduating from my Permaculture Design Course and starting this show. It’s been a pleasure and an honor to share so many voices with you as each of us works in our own ways to take care of Earth, ourselves, and each other.