Though I'd heard about the Permaculture Credit Union before, I didn't get around to looking into it further until Wes Roe, one of the board members of PCU, contacted me with the suggestion of talking to Bill. In setting up the interview, I spoke with Bill at length, and felt his background offered a unique perspective to discuss banking and financial permaculture; he's been involved in finance and business for over 30 years including holding a Master of Business Administration degree from Loyola College. Here is a banker who also practices permaculture. This interview adds another model to those presented by Eric Toensmeier and Lisa Fernandes on applying permaculture more broadly, particularly to business. We begin with Bill's background in the world of banking and finance, and how he came to permaculture. From there we move to the Permaculture Credit Union: how the organization began, the process involved to get started, and the ethos that allows people to join the credit union and also bind them together philosophically. Throughout it all, Bill speaks with clarity and frankness as I seek details on understanding the causes of the financial crisis/melt down/great recession over the last few years, and how the Permaculture Credit Union performed in comparison to the big banks. We throw some numbers around and touch on esoteric ideas behind what makes a particular financial institution secure or insecure. We close out talking about how community focused banks can make a difference to the people that live within there, even if the bank is located hundreds, or thousands, of miles away. In the information age physical location may matter less and less, but the we should ally with those who agree that the best place to start building a better world is at home, in our neighborhood, and our nearest town or city. Resources: Permaculture Credit Union 8 Forms of Capital

We begin by talking about the Eat Local Foods Coalition which leads to talking about Community Supported Fisheries (CSF), a sea-food based analogue to Community Supported Agriculture, where consumers directly support producers. A question I pose about the sustainability of these systems leads us down the road of considering water quality when we design for the land, the evolving nature of permaculture education, and the need for a mindset of abundance. Though the food system and abundance conversations exist across a gulf of this episode, the way they tie together resulted in the title of this episode. Eric Toensmeier mentioned Lisa in a previous episode which lead me to want to talk to her. I'm thankful I did. Lisa comes through in a clear voice that articulates her connections to this material, and her points, concisely, as opposed to my own rambling meanderings.

Resources:
Lisa M. Fernandes
Resilience Hub
Portland Maine Permaculture

Fisheries:
Ted Ames
Gulf of Maine Research Institute
Northwest Atlantic Marine Alliance
Penobscot East Resource Center

Food Systems:
Russell Libby
Eat Local Foods Coalition
Food Solutions New England
The Maine Food Strategy
Northeast Permaculture Region
Northeast Sustainable Agriculture Working Group

We discuss his book from the context of how he got involved with writing the book, working with a publisher, and the process of why and what got included in the final product. We also talk about his role as a teacher at Merritt Community College, where he's taught for 11 years, graduating around 700 PDC students in that time, the way he approaches the class as a hands-on endeavor, serving as another model for teaching Permaculture, and the permutations and changes coming as Permaculture continues to mature. 

Christopher clearly came from a place of knowledge and experience with Permaculture, so the book sounded interesting, coming from someone so steeped in the design and practice. That caused me to reach out to Christopher for an interview as well as his publisher about an advance copy of the book to read in preparation. Even though my copy was an uncorrected proof, the material stood out solidly and I liked it. If you would like to learn more about Christopher, you can find him at his personal website: wildheartgardens.com, or at the Merritt College Landscape Horticulture website: merrittlandhort.com, or at Timber Press, where you can pick up a copy of the book, timberpress.com.

Resources:
Wildheart Gardens Christopher's Website
Merritt College Landscape Horticulture
Timber Press Christopher's Publisher. Links directly to his book.
Bay Area Seed Interchange Library (B.A.S.I.L.)
Detroit Summer Program
Linnaea Farm Where Christopher studied Permaculture.

he set out in 2011, after many years of working on farms for others, to sow the soil for herself. We focus largely on her work of becoming established: finding land, developing solutions within the limitations she discovered, establishing markets, and developing a customer base. As tends to be the case, that's only an overview of some major topics, with other pieces filling in along the way. I wanted to talk to Erin because she's a friend of mine and I knew we could have a candid conversation about the process of transitioning to farming in a realistic, on the ground, way without romanticizing the experience or implying this is an easy path for everyone. That candor comes through when we cover how much land she farms, yields, and farming income, further personalizing by including the restrictions she set for herself in approaching farming on her own terms. There are lessons here for all of us inside and outside the lens of permaculture when we look at producing food, and the decisions we need to make. Resources: The Kale Yard The Organic Farmer's Business Handbook (Chelsea Green Publishing) Contact the Show: Email: The Permaculture Podcast

During our conversation we talk about The GrowHaus as a model for others who want to implement Urban Agriculture and along the way touch on invisible structures in Permaculture, engaging the community, practicing Permaculture in the city of Denver, which in turn leads us to both climatic issues such as sun, rain, and plant selection, but also water rights and the need to work with regulators. When I first became aware of The GrowHaus and traded email with Adam to setup the interview, my biggest question arose about how the people and organization worked on objectives of the goal “...to provide healthy, affordable food for the surrounding community and raise awareness about issues of food justice and sustainability.” The answers surprised me. As often happens I'm left speechless for a little bit, but thankfully can edit that out. You do, however, hear some of my joy for their work and the process. Another area that really stood out was in the conversation of social justice. I find when the word justice is attached to a term describing a movement towards equality, or a level playing field, the rhetoric can turn heated, or the phrase used to allow someone opposed to the idea to dismiss the advocate and their argument. But you should listen to what Adam says and the way that The GrowHaus works to provide a hand-up through personal engagement and responsibility, rather than a hand-out. Just as Adam and his colleagues grow food to physically nourish the members of the community, they also nurture the financial growth of those people. But, you should listen to the interview to hear the rest of that. Resources The GrowHaus Contact the Show The Permaculture Podcast

Andrew co-taught my advanced permaculture design certificiate teacher training, along with Jude Hobbs and Rico Zook, so I went into this interview with a familiarity with his work and style. In addition to teaching, he continues to design and consult on permaculture installations of all types and sizes, and also works on documenting permaculture projects. There are two videos you should check out, one with Tom Ward and another with Don Tipping. You can find out more about Andrew at beaverstatepermaculture.com. Someone else to know about in the Permaculture community is Andrew's colleague Marisha Auerbach, who currently teaches an online course with him. If you find that his schedule is too busy, or you'd like another voice from the Pacific Northwest, check out her work and you'll be in good hands.

Resources
Beaver State Permaculture
Marisha Auerbach
Barnabus Kane
Brad Lancaster
Tim Murphy
Gary Nabhan
Barbara Rose
Oregon State University Permaculture (4 College Credits)
Oregon State University Permaculture (Non-Credit)
Arcosanti
Ecosa Institute
Prescott College
Caduceus Cellars (Maynard James Keenan's Winery)

Though that work forms the body of our discussion, along the way we touch on science literacy, permaculture education, crowd-funding of scientific research, permaculture and metaphysics, farms and financial permaculture, and his work as an agroecologist and how that discipline informs his teaching and practice of permaculture. Quite a bit to cover in the 45 minutes or so of our conversation. If you'd like to learn more about Rafter and his work, first listen to this interview as an introduction and then delve in deep by visiting his website at LiberationEcology.org. Do you know someone farming with permaculture? Are you someone who is farming with permaculture? I'd love to hear about your work and experiences of applying this system of regenerative design to your efforts. Leave a comment below or: E-mail: The Permaculture Podcast Resources: Liberation Ecology The #SciFund Challenge Scott McCloud and Understanding Comics

Resources
Financial Permaculture Course
Financial Permaculture Registration
Eric Toensmeier and Perennial Solutions
David Rose and the Unified Field Corporation
Jude Hobbs and Cascadia Permaculture
Johnathan Cloud and the Center for Leadership in Sustainability exploring the small farm dream
Emily Kawano and United for a Fair Economy
Lisa Fernandes, Maine Permaculture practitioner.
Sprawl Repair Manual
Agrarian Urbanism
Green Plastics

Though the conversation is largely U.S. -centric, the methods and actions apply readily to any democratic form of government where the power of the system arises from the will of the people. I was introduced to Bonnie after a family member attended the Pennsylvania Women in Agriculture Network Woman to Woman conference. There Bonnie gave a presentation “An Activist? Me?” about the way to change legislation through local ordinances and grassroots organizing, in a way that empowers the individual to work towards making a difference.

When my wife got back from the conference Bonnie was the first person we talked about and with the most passion. For my wife, Bonnie struck a chord with the “I can do this!” perspective. With my wife so enthused, I knew I had to talk with Bonnie. I'm glad I did. Our conversation, to me, flows with a narrative beginning with her bio and the years before her birth and the multi-generational push that set Bonnie down the road to become a Librarian and to work for change. Moving forward from that time we receive various introductions from the people and organizations that impacted her life and the actions for meaningful change. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Roger Swain, the man in the red suspenders and former host of The Victory Garden on public television, or read any of his books or articles, but I love his writing for exactly the same reason I liked this conversation: both seem so casual and easy going that I didn't realize the wealth of knowledge being imparted on me until everything was said and done and a few minutes, hours, or maybe even days later we have that “Aha! Moment.” With Roger this usually related to gardening techniques, but with Bonnie it's how to engage in a grassroots, bottom up way that brings people together towards that common cause. If you like this interview with Bonnie and find value in it, please share it with others. Send a link to your friends or family, post it to Facebook or Twitter, or whatever other ways you use to reach people in this wonderfully connected digital age.

Resources
The Alliance for Democracy
New England Alliance for Democracy
Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF)
The Daniel Pennock Democracy Schools
Move to Amend
Rights Based Ordinance Examples (A list from the CELDF)
A Call to Citizens: Real Populists Please Stand Up by Ronnie Duggar
When Corporations Rule The World by David Korten
No More Prisons by William Upski Wimsatt
The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander

My guest for this episode is Dan Kittredge of the Bionutrient Food Association, a non-profit organization dedicated to spreading the word about nutrient dense farming methods, nutrient dense foods, and ultimately to develop a device so growers and consumers to measure the nutritional quality of food in a way that is backed by scientific evidence. If this is your first exposure to this idea, you may want to start with the episode "An Introduction to Nutrient Dense Farming with Mary Johnson." Mary provides an excellent overview of the ideas at the core of the discussion with Dan Kittredge and the wrok of the Bionutrient Food Association. Resources: Bionutrient Food Assocation Remineralize the Earth Northeast Organic Farming Association