A climate activist and former head of the non-profit Harry Potter Alliance—which used the collective fandom of J.K. Rowling’s Wizarding World to create a movement of good-will in the real-world—we talk about his approach of using the arts to catalyze movements through the stories we share, as fans of fiction, from our culture, or our individual lives. He also asks some questions of me about why permaculture matters, in a conversation that wound up personal for both of us. You can find out more about Andrew's current project at savesantashome.us. I’ve also included links in the resource section of this episode to The Harry Potter Alliance and other places you can find more about him and his work in the wider world.

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When I started this podcast in 2010, I wanted to deepen my understanding of permaculture and share what I learned during my permaculture design course. As time went on my interview skills improved and more and more people joined me as guests, including authors whose books you have on your shelves to others recording their first-ever media appearance. As that happened, so the show became about people sharing their stories. For those who were media savvy, to get them to stray from their talking points and tell us a personal tale about who they are, where they come from, and why what they do matters. For those who were new, to draw out their passion and hear more about what they care about. Together we could find threads in common to connect to and inspire. That regardless of our backgrounds we could understand one another as people, and make the world smaller, more intimate, and peaceful. Meeting with Andrew and sitting down with him in his apartment in Washington, D.C. I wanted to understand how people take their stories, their art, and the connections they see to create something bigger than individual actions. Something more than ourselves that is engaging, fun, and world-changing because as permaculture practitioners, we know how to solve problems. How to grow food. How to feed people. How to care for the other-than-human. How to restore ecosystems. How to repair damage to our communities. What I find missing is how we share the vision of what this bountiful future based on ethical design looks like. How do we use story, modern myths, the arts, to create broader social change? How do those of use skilled beyond the landscape apply our talents to create lasting and permanent culture atop the regenerative surplus of permanent agriculture? I know many of you are artists and storytellers yourselves. You write. You draw. You make comic books. You paint. What kind of collective can we form and work together so that people yearn for the dream of a lush, verdant, bountiful world? I’d love to hear from you.

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Send me an email: The Permaculture Podcast

Or write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast. Until the next time, spend each day sharing your story, telling new ones, and changing the world around you, while taking care of Earth, your self, and each other.

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Resources

Save Santa’s Home

Andrew Slack (Twitter) Andrew Slack (LinkedIn) The Harry Potter Alliance

Joseph Campbell’s Interview with Bill Moyers

Related Interviews

Fair Food Forager

Myth Making and Storytelling with Jason Godesky

It takes a whole village to raise a child

My guests for this episode are Caroline Wallace and Jesse Peterson, pictured here with their mentor Dave Jacke. Caroline and Jesse are the owners of Inside Edge Design, LCC, a permaculture design firm based in Helena, Montana, that applies the social system design framework of Dave Jacke to their municipal scale projects. During this conversation we talk about niche analysis and social system design and how to apply it to our work as permaculture practitioners to make the invisible structures a more visible part of the process. We use the 6th Ward Garden Park as an example of how they work with a local parks department and government in order to gain approval for the installation of a 1 acre food forest. [caption width="600" align="aligncenter"] A niche analysis of a European Pear showing the products, needs, characteristics, allies, and predators of this plant. (Click to enlarge)[/caption] I find that this interview complements the conversation I had with Steve Whitman in Episode 1517: Community Planning, very well, so after listening to this one, go and check out that one if you haven’t already. Together they help to prepare you to be better prepared to engage the society where you live. Before we begin, a reminder that the Traveling Permaculture Library Project is now being managed by Matt Winters, author of The Gift, and it’s a great time for you to get involved. Email your name and address to: librarian@thepermaculturepodcast.com and he will add you to the mailing list of this cycle of virtuous giving. Find out more about Caroline, Jesse, and their work, including their design document for the 6th Ward Garden Park (PDF), at InsideEdgeDesign.com. [caption width="600" align="aligncenter"] The same niche analysis applied to a human social system, the Helena Parks and Recreation department.(Click to enlarge)[/caption] Stepping away from this conversation I’m left with the feeling that their work will have a huge impact on our ability to design with the social and economic systems of our communities in mind in a way that insures we are able to use permaculture in the process. We could use the principles that currently exist, but we are trained up to look to the landscape as the metaphor and sometimes that frame of reference gets stuck. Here with the niche analysis, the axises of social system design (PDF), and Elinor Ostrom’s Eight Principles of Managing A Commons, we can leverage other tools into our toolbox that break us out of that strictly permaculture mindset, without having to start from scratch, and then expand upon them based on our own interests and abilities and with permaculture in mind. The road ahead for social systems is an incredible one to be a part of and likely to face numerous challenges as we move forward. I say this because of numerous conversations I encounter online where permaculture is still viewed strictly as a means of permanent agriculture, rather than one of permanent culture. Where do you see permaculture going from here? Where are you taking it that you would like to share with the world? Get in touch. . Email: The Permaculture Podcast or write me a letter and drop it in the mail: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast You can also join in the conversations at Facebook.com/thepermaculturepodcast or follow me on Twitter where I am @permaculturecst. I’ll do whatever I can to assist you on this path. If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. Share a link to your favorite episode on your blog, a forum, Facebook, or Twitter. Tell a friend. Or support the show with a one time donation using the PayPal button on the main page of the website at thepermaculturepodcast.com or by becoming an ongoing monthly member at patreon.com/permaculturepodcast. Anything you do to help keep this show on the air and growing lets, together, reach more people and bring ecological design further and further into the mainstream consciousness. One person, one story at a time we can make a difference. Until the next time, take care of Earth, your self, and each other. Resources Inside Edge Design, LLC 6th Ward Garden Park Design Report and Implementation Plan Elinor Ostrom’s 8 Prinicples of for Managing a Commons

After a short break to wrap up graduate school, today’s interview is with Steve Whitman, a permaculture designer and planner from New Hampshire. In addition to all of his work on various planning boards he also runs Resilience Planning & Design, LLC. During our conversation today Steve and I talk about engaging in government and community planning in order to inject more permaculture into the process. This is the beginning of an examination of how to make permaculture a part of the mainstream discussion by including holistic design into city and community development. To change the laws, codes, and ordinances in ways that allow us to have a more active role in what happens where we live. As the population continues to grow and more people live in towns and cities we can bring permaculture to the forefront and get involvement at all levels. Government and planning are some really big picture issues and I know that they can be intimidating, but speaking with Steve we kept things very straight forward. There’s plenty of discussion about how planning works, the various ways we can become part of the decision making, and how to bring about change, but this isn’t a technical conversation. It’s not full of jargon, but, honestly, is probably the most approachable conversation we could have on this complicated subject. I enjoyed talking to Steve and between the two of us we broke this down into something you can get started using today just by making a couple of phone calls. Find out more about Steve and his work at resilienceplanning.net. His door is open if you want to get in touch with him to talk about planning and getting involved in the process so that you can begin having a direct effect on the policies that impact your life, so feel free to reach out to him through his website. If there is anything I can do to help you on your path, let me know. Email: The Permaculture Podcast Of write if you would prefer: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast If you want to get started in changing policies there are a few steps I recommend from my own work in doing this. Throughout this next section I’m going to refer to the government body for a specific region as a municipality. In saying that it is a placeholder for anything from a town, to a city, county, state, province, or even national government. First, contact the municipality you want to work with and ask where you can find copies of the local ordinances. More and more, as part of open records and documentation projects, these are available online, or you may need to request a hard copy. Those are usually at a reasonable price. I think I paid $20 for the most up-to-date version from my township, a fair price given the large page count of this book. It's comparable to Mollison's Designers' Manual in page count. Once you’ve got this, begin reading through it and get an understanding for what is on record. Check the dates of when certain things were put on the books, that might give you some insight into, as Steve suggested, how and where things changed in your area. Yes the language can seem rather specific and shrouded in legalese sometimes, depending on how things are written, but I’ve yet to find something that is completely incomprehensible, but if you do have questions feel free to call and ask for assistance in understanding what something means. It’s a great way to get to know a code enforcement officer on a first name basis. Next up foster a relationship with the administrative assistant for the municipality, if there is one. I’ve repeatedly found that people in this position are the gatekeepers to power. Having a good relationship with them can get your passed directly to various officers, or provide insight into where to go next. Finally, start attending board and planning meetings. Use the principle of observation to understand what is happening. Look for places where you can add your voice to the discussion and ask pointed questions. Listen to the responses and consider your suggestions. Weigh in on areas you have expertise and push the edge towards more holistic design. One of my friends is often asked, “How did you get that done?” Their response? “I showed up.” Being present makes all the difference in the world. From here, an update on me and where things are to wrap things up. As of the release of this show I will graduate from grad school with my Master of Science in Park and Resource Management. If all my numbers are right, I will complete this two and a half year process with a 4.0 overall. It’s been a long hard road, particularly while raising a family and continuing to produce the show, but the results are worth it. I’ve learned a plenty that can be applied to the podcast in particular and permaculture education in general. There is lots and lots to do, and my next step is to continue my education and pursue a doctoral program. I’m still researching where to go and what exactly to study, but now is the time if I’m ever going to breath life into The Plan and see it spring forth into the world. Doing so brings me to another crossroads, though not quite like the one last year. I know I’m on the right road for myself, but I am in a place where I need to find a place to live and take care of my children and, as much as I want it to, the podcast as a sole pursuit isn’t enough at the moment to do so. The show is financially self sufficient at this point and pays for itself, but I am looking for a full time job to keep myself going while I keep this show and everything else in the air. The website, the podcast, all of that is going to stay on the air, but there will be changes coming in the future, I just don’t know what yet. Once things start to settle out, I’ll let you know more as I do. Beyond that there are other fun things coming up. June 4 I’m scheduled to record a round table discussion with Charles Eisenstein, Dave Jacke, and Ben Weiss which will come out a few weeks later as a two part (or more) episode. There is also another round table recording scheduled for September, and another road trip to Virginia is in the works to do a one year follow-up with the guests from that event and to add some new interviews to that journey. Plus, in August, I get to go to Canada and be the best man at a dear friend’s wedding. I won’t be recording anything there, but it will be some good fun. Whatever the future holds, wherever my path leads, I will remain here as a resource for you however I am able. You are not alone on your permaculture journey so contact me, however you would like, if I can help you. Until the next time, take care of earth, yourself, and each other. Resource: Resilience Planning and Design, LLC.