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In this video Matt shares his personal story about establishing a sense of place and bringing that into the city to foster real resiliency. Many of the ideas he presents remind me of the work of David Orr and David Sobel and how creating a sense of place, to truly integrate ourselves into the land, the people, and the community, can increase our concern for what happens to that place we call home.

This episode is a Susquehanna Permaculture round-table discussion recorded at my friend Seppi Garrett’s on June 3, 2015 in front of a live audience. The panel for the conversation were Ben Weiss, Dave Jacke, and Charles Eisenstein. Ostensibly the conversation was framed around the idea of how to achieve a right livelihood, but as you might imagine with these three voices in a room together the bounds of the conversation pushed in every direction and touched on much much more. For regular listeners who have heard Ben and Dave in the past, the conversation was also candid in ways that you won’t hear elsewhere. This piece is part one of two recorded that day, as Charles was with us for only a short time. The second half, with Ben, Dave, and various audience members, will be released on June 24, with more round tables like this in the works. If you enjoy this episode become an ongoing podcast patron at Patreon.com/permaculturepodcast, or with a one-time donation via the PayPal link on the right hand side of the podcast page. Your support is how I keep the show on the air and am able to arrange the time to facilitate the conversation you are about to hear and others like it. You can find out more about Ben at susquehannapc.com. Dave’s website is edibleforestgardens.com and Charles’ is at charleseisenstein.net. I'd also like to thank Shauna Yorty for taking pictures of the event, including the one of the three panelists I used here. I’m going to hold my commentary on this until the release of part two on June 24. In the meantime, I want to let you know that I will be a guest instructor at Jude Hobbs’ upcoming Teacher Training, in cooperation with Beyond Organic Design, on June 28 at The Commons in Brooklyn, New York. You can find out more at beyondorganicdesign.com. After that I’ll be a keynote speaker on Friday, August 21, 2015, talking about building resilient communities at the Radicle Gathering in Bowling Green, Kentucky. That is a four-day event of music and workshops that runs from August 20-23, 2015. The website for that festival is radiclegathering.com.I’m also recording another round table discussion on September 12, 2015 at The Riverside Project in West Virginia. If you have an event you’d like me to come to, or to serve as a panelist or speaker, let me know. email: show@thepermacutlurepodcast.com Write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast I’ll join you next week with an interview from Penny Livingston-Stark. Until then, take care of Earth, your self, and each other.

This show is a best of featuring the two interviews with Ethan Hughes combined into a single episode with a running time of over two hours. The first half was originally released September 14, 2012, and was titled Radical Possibilities. The second came out on November 26, 2013, and was called Practical Possibilities. Listening to both of these together, in preparation for this new release, I got caught on Ethan’s words that his lifestyle is a “Necessary Simplicity,” which lead to the current title. Of all the material I’ve recorded and produced in the nearly five years of creating this podcast, Ethan’s time with me, totalling about four hours over two different days before being brought down to what you will hear today, stands as the most popular and influential thus far. If you are new to the podcast, listen and hear the possibilities in Ethan’s words and know why that is the case. If you have heard these before, enjoy them in this new way, and be inspired to make even greater change. After listening to this share it with others. Get the word out about all the incredible possibilities, radical and necessary, that are open to us if we begin to truly embody what we believe in. Until the next time, take care of Earth, your self, and each other. Learn more about The Possibility Handbook, a book Ethan and I are writing together. Contact Ethan The Possibility Alliance 85 Edgecomb Road Belfast, ME 04915 207-338-5719

My guest for this episode Jude Hobbs. Jude runs Cascadia Permaculture, located in Cottage Grove, Oregon, and is a long time permaculture designer and teacher. 2015 is her 15th year offering a Permaculture Teacher Training, and that class forms the basis of our conversation. She shares with us what the course is like, the materials covered, the importance of set and setting, and walks us through the class. As a graduate of this course in 2011 I share some of my memories and how that event, and Jude’s tutelage, influenced my path. Using that as a point of reflection she shares how the class has changed in the four years since, as this is an ever evolving program that expands based on her experiences and new writings on experiential education. Jude is also a founding member of PINA: Permaculture Institute of North America. We spend some time at the end of this interview discussing what PINA is, the ways we as permaculture practitioners can benefit from this grass roots oriented professional organization, and how you can connect to learn more or become a member. If you would like to take a Teacher Training with Jude there is an upcoming class being offered in cooperation with Beyond Organic Design at The Commons in Brooklyn, New York, from June 24 to June 30, 2015. I am scheduled to be a guest instructor the evening of Sunday June 28. The course is limited to 15 participants and my understanding is that they are reaching capacity quickly so if you are interested sign up now via this link: Advanced Course in Permaculture Teacher Training with Jude Hobbs You can find out more about Jude and her work at cascadiapermaculture.com. Though many years have passed since I took my Teacher Training course with Jude, Andrew, and Rico, the impact of my time spent with them at Jude’s home in 2011 still sits with me. This class lead to the path I am on now with The Plan and seeking to formally study and understand the ways in which to better teach through informal and experiential learning. The course also helped me understand that though I am a kinesthetic learner I prefer to present through conversation with only necessary graphics, and generally abhor PowerPoint unless it is absolutely necessary. That changes the way I teach. Rather than mimicking the styles of others, I found a personal approach that I am comfortable with, balanced by knowing and understanding it is not an approach that reaches everyone and requires that I adjust my approach as needed to the audience. This course also gave me enough successes to continue to put myself out into the world and start with those small presentations at the local library and see them expand to discussions at the monthly meeting of the county master gardeners, and to set-up an informational table on rain-barrels and vermicomposting at a local nature center and later return there to give an afternoon demonstration on how worms can eat our garbage. This last one really drew in the children and made their parents a bit squeamish, but was still a really fun time. Those opportunities continue to grow, and I count my Teacher Training as one of the transition points to begin really pushing my personal boundaries. I left the course confident enough to do, to put myself out there, and to be more to myself and the permaculture community than I thought was possible. Though quite a bit dated at this point, I’ve included a link to my original review of the teacher training in the show notes that you can listen to my first impressions shortly after completing the class. If there is any way I can help you with your permaculture education, please let me know how I can be of service. Email: The Permaculture Podcast Write: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast You can also follow the show on Twitter, @permaculturecst, and join in the discussions on Facebook. I want to get information about permculture to as many people as possible and need you to help do it. You can help the show grow in a few ways by taking a few minutes of your time. Review the show on iTunes or your preferred podcast site. Listen to the show with friends or family members. Post a link to your favorite episode on your blog, Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, or wherever else you get social with media. Make a one time donation by mail or via the PayPal link on the right hand side of this page or become a member via Patreon. If you are a teacher and want to include the podcast in your course material, please do, I just ask that you let people know where the podcast came from so your students can connect with me and the show. If you run a permaculture study group listen to an episode together, discuss it, and let me know how it went. If you’d like to me to come speak with your group, or Skype in for a discussion, those are options too, contact me for more details. Until the next time, take care of Earth, your self, and each other.

This episode is a permabyte from Michael B. Commons about his experiences hosting the 2015 Thailand Permaculture Convergence, which was held March 26-28, 2015. The theme of this convergence was Thai Self Reliance. The report comes from Michael, and is read by me your host.

On Saturday, 28 March, we wrapped up the 3rd Thailand Permaculture Convergence held at Wanakaset, Sanam Chaikhet, Chachoengsao, Thailand. I was a key facilitator for this event. During the programme while we focused strongly on a very participatory and co-owned programme and process, I still had the role as the primary Master of Ceremonies. So as you may imagine while this was all very inspiring, I had my moments of stress and worry. But now having passed by, I feel myself and from most everyone who has communicated with me that it was a tremendous success. It took some time, and many others deserve credit for helping to enable this, including Ms. Sarinya who led the opening ceremony that was key to facilitating this process, but most everyone caught the spirit of co-ownership and we became for a small period in time, a community. Thus I too could participate as a member and enjoy the contributions and support of everyone else for this period of time. In fact unlike training programs I have organized, I (and my Wanakaset colleagues) purposely left much space and many things undone. This meant success was dependent upon the contributions of others. Sometimes I was asked to help organize for a participant’s session and I would respond something like, “I am not the organizer, you are, talk to the community and get the support you need.” This then happened and it became a reality. My wife Yoke told me that she felt this sense of community very strongly and really felt like we were amongst a large extended family. While we knew a number of people before, like the many Wanakaset members involved, we also all met many new people. But as Yoke said to me, she felt that as we were are clearly engaged on a similar path of practicing what we believe in and sharing a similar vision of a way of life that is in balance with nature, we were very close in spirit. I also was very appreciative of the spirit of mutual acceptance and non-judgement. The way and work each one of us was doing in practicing the ideas of Permaculture or Self-Reliance might not be the same, but that was ok. It felt as if there is room for different paths toward the same goals. The theme of this convergence was “Permaculture meets the Thai Self-Reliance Movement.” Prior to this event there was very little mixing between these two movements, one coming from abroad, and one born in Thailand that share many similar ideas and methods. This distance was most clearly due to linguistic barriers, but also perhaps due to the names (as some may be more attached to the name Permaculture, or Self-Reliance than to what are their goals and methods). This Convergence succeeded in bringing together people from these two movements, I believe more than any prior case yet. About half of the participants came from either movement. About half were Thai and half non-Thais. We had about 15 participants who were quite bilingual, with about 6 who could do very well as interpreters of more complex sessions. So pretty much every session was interpreted and there was all sorts of additional time for discussions and sharing beyond the programme schedule not limited by language. I am not sure if there has been a prior programme here in Thailand that has used this very participatory and co-owned format. A quick count shows we had 40 different sessions. Many sessions were supported by two people (a presenter and an interpreter). Some like the guided forest walk, had 4 guides and interpreters to split the group up. So the event had more than 50 persons (of about 75 joining) participating in the content. Participants also helped prepare and break down, with cooking, cleaning the bathrooms, sweeping the paths, and all of the background logistical support even if more of this fell on a few key coordinators. We agreed to try and keep costs as low as possible and manage the event as a non-profit voluntary event. Thanks to a donation from a good friend and fellow permaculturalist, we had some initial funds to invest in preparing the space to receive this large group. We also could then lower our expected contribution. We asked a minimum of 1000 THB (about $32 USD) per adult for the 3 day/ 3 night event. We also welcomed in kind contributions for up to half of this value. As it was, it seemed everyone felt this rate was affordable and fair and many in the end decided to contribute more. This meant that we had a surplus of about 10,000 THB left over. But as the convergence ended with different initiatives to further Permaculture and Self-Reliance in Thailand, it was agreed that we could use this surplus as a small budget to help support further activities and thus help extend the legacy of this event. As all the work required to make it happen was voluntary, the in kind contributions were in terms of produce and materials. While most of the Wanakaset members made a contribution of this type and contributions like organic rice and wild yams were then used in the menu, it was difficult to integrate all of the in kind contributions from other participants. However as another key event and a highlight for many was the biodiversity and natural product market, where these in kind contributions did not fit so much into the needs, there was ready demand and interest from other participants to exchange for or purchase these products. Many seeds were exchanged and one of the ongoing initiatives is to try and link members to enable further exchange of products between us. While some might view such a market only as a trade initiative, what people brought in terms of seeds, seedlings, natural products, and appropriate technology all linked to their work, knowledge, and skill in applying Permaculture and Self-Reliance principles. Seeing what others were producing, was also an entry point to learn about how they do this, and thus come away with more than a product. One of the principles we set was that knowledge would be freely shared amongst all participants, however products and services could be sold. So Chanin and Praew taught how to make chocolate bliss balls but then also sold some bliss balls and other special goodies to participants. My wife Yoke explained and demonstrated Shirodhara (a type of Ayurvedic head massage) but participants who wanted to receive a massage paid some contribution. These were however extras, beyond the interesting programme we all created, simple lodging, and good food mostly from local organic ingredients including many local vegetable varieties. On a personal level, I was very happy how this temporary community also was a wonderful place for our children. A number of children joined and they all looked to be having great fun. The community of parents (and others) was like an extended family with many helping to look after the children who also enjoyed much freedom to explore, yet with help and support always nearby. This confirmed my understanding that such a community environment is our natural human condition and that the isolated nuclear family is really an anomaly. On the larger level, my long held belief and experience is that everyone can learn and everyone has something to share. However I feel that our society and pressures within our culture tend to lead us to a position of fear and lack of confidence in our own knowledge and experience. Thus we may see trying (and potentially failing) as worse than trying. We also often see only those with a certificate or title such as Phd as having the capacity to teach others. As this was a convergence of practitioners, the general prerequisite was that those who were to join must have made some step to practice what they believe. Anyone who has made such an attempt has experience and whether successful or not, has learnt something. In my view experience has a much greater value than knowledge gained only from books and discussions. For along with observation, each experience tells its own story and increases the body of collective knowledge. I may have been most strict in pressing this point on sharing experiences with participants as they requested to join. A number of those who were to join, were reluctant and felt they did not have the knowledge or experience to share. I however did not believe this and if it were really the case, then I said they were not fit to join. However my insistence and then the very supportive community environment meant that in the end a number of participants who may have never shared their knowledge or led a session did so. From what I saw and heard from them, this was transformative. And while we may have our own local “Permaculture Rock Stars,” the event showed that all of us had interesting and valuable experience and knowledge to share. As we had normally 3 sessions going on at the same time, neither I nor anyone else had the chance to join every session. However every session that I joined or that anyone told me about was interesting and taught something of value. As I have worked in training and capacity development for a long time, my experience is that when one only listens or reads something, the knowledge and confidence is low. When one participates in doing something (like making bliss balls) or an interactive discussion such as about the principles and application of Wanakaset, the understanding and confidence is greater. When then one explains and teaches another person about what was learned it then brings a greater clarity to the learning. So while we all needed to make the choice between 3 interesting sessions and other options, later on we exchanged about what we learned from one session or the other. This process would reinforce and share the knowledge further. As I have experienced before with such a co-owner participatory knowledge sharing process, the process and supportive environment meant that as the event transpired there was increasing energy and desire to contribute. The fear of sharing was gone, and it seemed that everyone felt more and more like they had received so much from others that they wanted to give more. So at the end of 3 days, it felt as if the community was just starting to reach its potential. While the event had to end and the temporary community had to dissolve, my hope is that for the next convergence wherever it is held that many of us will join together again and with much more experience in such a process, we will be able to quickly re-establish such a community of sharing.

Below you will a find a 12 minute video from the convergence where you can see the variety of activities the attendees participated in including permaculture education, making bamboo cups, the fundamentals of wicking beds, icecream from wild yams, and much more. I’d like to thank Michael for this report and also for his invitation to attend the convergence. Though I couldn’t make it this year I would like to find a way to go in the future. As my permaculture is rooted in the Appalachian mountain of Pennsylvania and this particular biome, which is one of the reasons I would presume to teach on the ground methods of permaculture outside this region, I would like to experience what is offered elsewhere to get a feel for how these other pieces fit together around the world, and to reflect on those differences and how they impact the practice of permaculture where different people call home. To develop an understanding of the bigger pictures of permaculture as a global practice rather than filtered through the lens of, as Michael referred to them, our Permaculture Rock Stars. To help support that vision, and this show, Michael is offering an interesting and unique opportunity to listeners of the podcast: A three day Permaculture Self-Reliance Movement Tour in Thailand. This tour would include directions to Michael’s, located about two hours from Bangkok, where you can enjoy a three day and two night tour for two adults, plus one or two minor children. On the first day you can have lunch and refreshments with Michael at his home and see their adobe coffee shop and his wife’s natural product business, and talk about how they’ve worked the land and applied Permaculture to the property. From there walk over to Wanakaset where you will spend your two nights. There you can walk the grounds and learn about the techniques to convert open land to the Wanakaset forest. On the second day awaken to a breakfast provided by the staff that is likely to be a rice soup with mixed rice varieties, grains, and vegetables, but can be adapted to your diet if you have any allergies. On this second day you can then learn to make several of the natural products that are offered in the area, including natural soaps, kaffir lime shampoo, a tamarind face wash, or learn to extract sugar from sugar cane juice, to name a few. Or if you prefer on this day you can go on a tour of local farms that are practicing integrated ecological agriculture. In the evening you can return to Wanakaset, if you left, to have dinner and continued the learning process with Michael and discuss what you encountered that day. The morning of the third day take a tour to the Khao Hinsorn Agricultural Development Center, a site that is being developed by the King of Thailand to encourage self-sufficient agriculture. Lots to see here, especially if you are an avid permaculture practitioner. After that tour retire to have lunch, either at Wanakaset or to Michael’s home where he will send you on your way after an offer of some of his family’s natural products as souvenirs. In exchange for this tour Michael is asking that you donate $200 US to the podcast. If you choose to do so, please include a note with your donation that lets me know that you would like to take this tour. For further details please read: Wanakaset Tour. This PDF contains further details about this opportunity. Note, you are responsible for all of your travel to and from Thailand and Michael’s home, which is located two hours outside of Bangkok. Again, I’d like to thank Michael for offering a different way to support the show and give something back to the community by continuing permaculture education with a unique approach towards a sustainable future. If anywhere along your path I can assist you, wherever you call home, get in touch with me. I will do whatever I can to connect you with the resources available. After producing this show for over four years I’ve developed a huge number of resources and contacts to help every listener on their journey, but very often I don’t remember I know something until I’m asked, like earlier this week when someone sent me an email looking for drip irrigation supplies for a hoop house, which reminded me of a one off conversation I had during my PDC back in 2010, and I was able to find the supply company recommended by one of my instructors. So call me: or Email: The Permaculture Podcast Until the next time, take care of earth, your self, and each other. Wanakaset Tour (PDF)

My guest for this episode is Miriam Volat the director of Farm School, a project located in Sonoma County, California, in cooperation with the Permaculture Skills Center. The program she is developing takes an intense long-term approach to training up a new generation of regenerative farmers from all walks of life who will then return to their communities to become engaged according to their own interests. Whatever way they walk this road they will do so fully prepared, including business plans, farm designs, and a network of mentors to support them. Though not a permaculture design course in and of itself, it is a parallel kind of program that we would do well to replicate in order to expand upon the Permaculture Design Course and better prepare students to begin applying permaculture whatever their occupation and wherever they call home. Listen to Miriam’s description of the project, including a number of points we discuss applicable to permaculture design. Whether you are an instructor or not, there is much to learn during this conversation. You can Find out more about this project by going to permacultureskillscenter.org and clicking on “Farm School.” Two things, it always seems to be two things doesn’t it, stand out for me from this interview. The first is the reminder that we need to take a long term approach to working with permaculture and applying it to the various systems of the world that we are a part of, while training those who will follow us. Together those actions continue to make the changes necessary to live in a regenerative world. As much as I would like to see something happen overnight, to do so too rapidly is foolish and dangerous. It’s one thing to uproot our own lives to try something new, but we cannot expect the same of our family, friends, or larger communities. Take one step today, another tomorrow, and over a lifetime you can make a difference to the world. The second part for me is the need to expand the pool of permaculture education and permaculture educators. There are many great classes and teachers out there, including some you’ve heard of and hundreds you have not, but we do not have enough to train up the numbers that we need to bring about broad systemic change. The permaculture design course is a great place to get started down this path formally, as are the advanced trainings, but we need more of them, with greater variety. Niches to fill to get this information in the hands of gardeners, home owners, community leaders, and academics. Community programs that fill the role of a PDC-lite, and longer, more intensive ones, like Miriam outlined, that take a particular subject underneath this big umbrella and expands upon it to fill a specific role, be that for a farmer, a community leader, a physician, or parent. Everyone can benefit from permaculture, but we have to bring it to them in a way that is useful and functional to their lives, not ask them to come to us. Eventually I’d like to see a formalized program where someone can earn a multi-disciplinary Associates, Bachelor’s, Master’s, and, eventually, PhD, in Permaculture Design from a regionally accredited college or university. Then we can start getting into the 37,000 public and private high schools, and 2,000 non-profit colleges and universities. By doing so we can step out of the niche we currently inhabit with the support of even larger communities. This second piece comes from my own journey and biases, I’ll readily admit. I’ve experienced the difference, repeatedly, that a set of credentials can make in opening doors and garnering immediate acceptance and credibility. Just by mentioning “graduate student” I was able to interview a number of guests who had hesitated before to do so. Coming as an academic equal shows our own seriousness and interest in the subjects at hand. Just the same, now that I’m through, mentioning “Master’s degree” opens up other opportunities to teach on college campuses or to act as a corporate trainer. The education isn’t a prerequisite, but it really does shorten the line we’re standing in. To keep the ball rolling, if we want to take permaculture mainstream, we need to dig into the system that exists and leverage it to our needs. To be subversive and use what works for us to make a difference. To help students gain access to this education in a way that is equitable to everyone involved. I’m not saying that the educational institutions as they exist are perfect, but we can’t change them if we don’t get engaged. We must do something. We must, each and everyone of us, take action, or these systems will never move in a direction that makes the difference we want them to. As a result of this interview and many other conversations over the past few weeks I’ve decided that I am going to continue on my own personal journey to eventually be able to call this show The Permaculture Podcast with Dr. Scott Mann. Though I don’t know how things will work out, as there are many steps in the process, I’ve begun the application process to Penn State University for a D.Ed. in Adult Education, with the plan, should I be accepted, to start this Fall, 2015. During that time I will continue to be available to the community as a resource by email or phone, and will keep creating the podcast in one form or another. If you like this show support it however you can. Tell a friend. Share a link on your favorite website, forum, or blog. Listen to your favorite episode with your friends or family. Talk about it. Make a donation via the PayPal link on the left-hand side of the website. Ask your boss, or yourself if you are the boss, to sponsor an episode. Go to patreon.com/thepermaculturepodcast and become a member. Send me an email to The Permaculture Podcast letting me know what a difference a particular guest had on your life. If I’ve said something that inspires you, or that got your fired up enough to take action, call me: . You can also use that email address and phone number to get in touch if I can help you in any way along your permaculture path. Until the next time, take care of earth, your self, and each other. Resources Farm School Permaculture Skills Center FEED Sonoma California Climate & Agriculture Network Sonoma County Heirloom Festival Laguna Farm Bohemian Farmers Collective

My guests for this episode are Caroline Wallace and Jesse Peterson, pictured here with their mentor Dave Jacke. Caroline and Jesse are the owners of Inside Edge Design, LCC, a permaculture design firm based in Helena, Montana, that applies the social system design framework of Dave Jacke to their municipal scale projects. During this conversation we talk about niche analysis and social system design and how to apply it to our work as permaculture practitioners to make the invisible structures a more visible part of the process. We use the 6th Ward Garden Park as an example of how they work with a local parks department and government in order to gain approval for the installation of a 1 acre food forest. [caption width="600" align="aligncenter"] A niche analysis of a European Pear showing the products, needs, characteristics, allies, and predators of this plant. (Click to enlarge)[/caption] I find that this interview complements the conversation I had with Steve Whitman in Episode 1517: Community Planning, very well, so after listening to this one, go and check out that one if you haven’t already. Together they help to prepare you to be better prepared to engage the society where you live. Before we begin, a reminder that the Traveling Permaculture Library Project is now being managed by Matt Winters, author of The Gift, and it’s a great time for you to get involved. Email your name and address to: librarian@thepermaculturepodcast.com and he will add you to the mailing list of this cycle of virtuous giving. Find out more about Caroline, Jesse, and their work, including their design document for the 6th Ward Garden Park (PDF), at InsideEdgeDesign.com. [caption width="600" align="aligncenter"] The same niche analysis applied to a human social system, the Helena Parks and Recreation department.(Click to enlarge)[/caption] Stepping away from this conversation I’m left with the feeling that their work will have a huge impact on our ability to design with the social and economic systems of our communities in mind in a way that insures we are able to use permaculture in the process. We could use the principles that currently exist, but we are trained up to look to the landscape as the metaphor and sometimes that frame of reference gets stuck. Here with the niche analysis, the axises of social system design (PDF), and Elinor Ostrom’s Eight Principles of Managing A Commons, we can leverage other tools into our toolbox that break us out of that strictly permaculture mindset, without having to start from scratch, and then expand upon them based on our own interests and abilities and with permaculture in mind. The road ahead for social systems is an incredible one to be a part of and likely to face numerous challenges as we move forward. I say this because of numerous conversations I encounter online where permaculture is still viewed strictly as a means of permanent agriculture, rather than one of permanent culture. Where do you see permaculture going from here? Where are you taking it that you would like to share with the world? Get in touch. . Email: The Permaculture Podcast or write me a letter and drop it in the mail: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast You can also join in the conversations at Facebook.com/thepermaculturepodcast or follow me on Twitter where I am @permaculturecst. I’ll do whatever I can to assist you on this path. If you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. Share a link to your favorite episode on your blog, a forum, Facebook, or Twitter. Tell a friend. Or support the show with a one time donation using the PayPal button on the main page of the website at thepermaculturepodcast.com or by becoming an ongoing monthly member at patreon.com/permaculturepodcast. Anything you do to help keep this show on the air and growing lets, together, reach more people and bring ecological design further and further into the mainstream consciousness. One person, one story at a time we can make a difference. Until the next time, take care of Earth, your self, and each other. Resources Inside Edge Design, LLC 6th Ward Garden Park Design Report and Implementation Plan Elinor Ostrom’s 8 Prinicples of for Managing a Commons

Exciting, isn’t it? Toby Hemenway has a new book coming out and I’ll just go ahead and say it: it is incredible. I received an advance copy, clocking in at 288 pages, from the publisher Chelsea Green and, even though I’m a slow reader, sat down and read the whole thing, cover to cover, in a day. What I like about this book is that the way it is written and organized reminds me of my own permaculture path. In the beginning, there is an examination of the ethics and principles and why they matter. Then there is a look at design and considering techniques, but then stepping back and organizing our thoughts with the tools provided by the permaculture design process. To re-examine the elements and how they relate to systems. As that understanding grows to take another step and use small examples, such as water systems, to expand our thoughts further and realize there is more to this work than just the land and includes the people involved with caring for it, maintaining it, and that those living communities matter. They embody why we care for Earth, care for people, and share the surplus.

As importantly, Toby also addresses the real fact that we can’t expect everyone to become hunter-gatherers again or subsistence farmers. Even if we could that idea isn’t reflective of the resiliency that permaculture design engenders. Using resiliency as a basis he uses several examples, including home and community gardening, water, and energy use, as informal case studies to explore how to apply the principles to step back and ask bigger questions so we can create useful strategies. This last point is important because, to me, The Permaculture City is a book about better understanding our design strategies, those often nebulous ideas that separate the philosophical underpinnings of permaculture, the ethics and principles, from the techniques that represent the physical practice that all of our on-paper design results in. There is time for techniques when we implement, but that can only come after consideration and design. For those of you familiar with the Zone and Sector design models in permaculture, they are both upon throughout the provided examples. I was left with a new understanding of how to apply these, especially to social systems. Chapter Nine in particular, on Placemaking and The Empowered Community, took me in a whole new direction.

Though I’ve used these methods repeatedly in the past after seeing them applied in the context of the various examples I come to agree with what Larry Santoyo says, which is quoted in this book, “Sectors trump everything.” I’m now going back and examining some of my designs, including landscape, social, and economic, to see where my sector analysis may be weak. My thoughts on permaculture moving beyond the landscape started several years ago when I interviewed Dave Jacke, Larry Santoyo, and Mark Lakeman in short succession. Reading this book has helped to continue my shift in thinking about permaculture, and in about the time it would take you to go back and listen to those interviews you can sit down and be well into this wonderful book and have an even greater understanding of how permaculture applies to so many human systems, but also how to start asking the questions that can take your understanding of design to the next level. I’ve been in this field for half a decade now and this book is a welcome addition to my library. It came at the right time, but I can’t help but wish that I would have been ready for it and received it sooner. Overall I like Toby’s latest book so much that I’m putting it on my recommended reading list, especially for someone new to permaculture. After you’ve read Masanobu Fukuoka’s The One-Straw Revolution, Donella Meadows’ Thinking in Systems, Rosemary Morrow’s Earth User’s Guide to Permaculture, and David Holmgren’s Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability, read The Permaculture City and take your design well beyond the landscape.

The Permaculture City is onsale now and you can order a copy today through Chelsea Green at: https://www.chelseagreen.com/bookstore/item/the_permaculture_city

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After a short break to wrap up graduate school, today’s interview is with Steve Whitman, a permaculture designer and planner from New Hampshire. In addition to all of his work on various planning boards he also runs Resilience Planning & Design, LLC. During our conversation today Steve and I talk about engaging in government and community planning in order to inject more permaculture into the process. This is the beginning of an examination of how to make permaculture a part of the mainstream discussion by including holistic design into city and community development. To change the laws, codes, and ordinances in ways that allow us to have a more active role in what happens where we live. As the population continues to grow and more people live in towns and cities we can bring permaculture to the forefront and get involvement at all levels. Government and planning are some really big picture issues and I know that they can be intimidating, but speaking with Steve we kept things very straight forward. There’s plenty of discussion about how planning works, the various ways we can become part of the decision making, and how to bring about change, but this isn’t a technical conversation. It’s not full of jargon, but, honestly, is probably the most approachable conversation we could have on this complicated subject. I enjoyed talking to Steve and between the two of us we broke this down into something you can get started using today just by making a couple of phone calls. Find out more about Steve and his work at resilienceplanning.net. His door is open if you want to get in touch with him to talk about planning and getting involved in the process so that you can begin having a direct effect on the policies that impact your life, so feel free to reach out to him through his website. If there is anything I can do to help you on your path, let me know. Email: The Permaculture Podcast Of write if you would prefer: The Permaculture Podcast The Permaculture Podcast If you want to get started in changing policies there are a few steps I recommend from my own work in doing this. Throughout this next section I’m going to refer to the government body for a specific region as a municipality. In saying that it is a placeholder for anything from a town, to a city, county, state, province, or even national government. First, contact the municipality you want to work with and ask where you can find copies of the local ordinances. More and more, as part of open records and documentation projects, these are available online, or you may need to request a hard copy. Those are usually at a reasonable price. I think I paid $20 for the most up-to-date version from my township, a fair price given the large page count of this book. It's comparable to Mollison's Designers' Manual in page count. Once you’ve got this, begin reading through it and get an understanding for what is on record. Check the dates of when certain things were put on the books, that might give you some insight into, as Steve suggested, how and where things changed in your area. Yes the language can seem rather specific and shrouded in legalese sometimes, depending on how things are written, but I’ve yet to find something that is completely incomprehensible, but if you do have questions feel free to call and ask for assistance in understanding what something means. It’s a great way to get to know a code enforcement officer on a first name basis. Next up foster a relationship with the administrative assistant for the municipality, if there is one. I’ve repeatedly found that people in this position are the gatekeepers to power. Having a good relationship with them can get your passed directly to various officers, or provide insight into where to go next. Finally, start attending board and planning meetings. Use the principle of observation to understand what is happening. Look for places where you can add your voice to the discussion and ask pointed questions. Listen to the responses and consider your suggestions. Weigh in on areas you have expertise and push the edge towards more holistic design. One of my friends is often asked, “How did you get that done?” Their response? “I showed up.” Being present makes all the difference in the world. From here, an update on me and where things are to wrap things up. As of the release of this show I will graduate from grad school with my Master of Science in Park and Resource Management. If all my numbers are right, I will complete this two and a half year process with a 4.0 overall. It’s been a long hard road, particularly while raising a family and continuing to produce the show, but the results are worth it. I’ve learned a plenty that can be applied to the podcast in particular and permaculture education in general. There is lots and lots to do, and my next step is to continue my education and pursue a doctoral program. I’m still researching where to go and what exactly to study, but now is the time if I’m ever going to breath life into The Plan and see it spring forth into the world. Doing so brings me to another crossroads, though not quite like the one last year. I know I’m on the right road for myself, but I am in a place where I need to find a place to live and take care of my children and, as much as I want it to, the podcast as a sole pursuit isn’t enough at the moment to do so. The show is financially self sufficient at this point and pays for itself, but I am looking for a full time job to keep myself going while I keep this show and everything else in the air. The website, the podcast, all of that is going to stay on the air, but there will be changes coming in the future, I just don’t know what yet. Once things start to settle out, I’ll let you know more as I do. Beyond that there are other fun things coming up. June 4 I’m scheduled to record a round table discussion with Charles Eisenstein, Dave Jacke, and Ben Weiss which will come out a few weeks later as a two part (or more) episode. There is also another round table recording scheduled for September, and another road trip to Virginia is in the works to do a one year follow-up with the guests from that event and to add some new interviews to that journey. Plus, in August, I get to go to Canada and be the best man at a dear friend’s wedding. I won’t be recording anything there, but it will be some good fun. Whatever the future holds, wherever my path leads, I will remain here as a resource for you however I am able. You are not alone on your permaculture journey so contact me, however you would like, if I can help you. Until the next time, take care of earth, yourself, and each other. Resource: Resilience Planning and Design, LLC.